0:09

Hello you and welcome to You Are

0:11

Good, a feelings podcast about movies. Today we

0:13

are talking about Best in Show and we

0:15

are talking about it with our great friend

0:18

Sarah Archer. I am one of your

0:21

hosts, Alex Steed, and I will soon

0:23

be joined by my marvelous co-host, Sarah

0:25

Marshall. Best in Show

0:27

is a 2000 American

0:29

mockumentary comedy film co-written by Christopher

0:31

Guest in Eugene Levy and directed

0:33

by Guest. You know

0:36

about it, it's the dogs, it's the dogs

0:38

one. It's the dogs

0:40

Christopher Guest movie. Sarah Archer

0:42

is an American writer and

0:44

curator based in Philadelphia. She's the

0:47

author of Catland, The Soft Power

0:49

of Cat Culture in Japan, The

0:51

Mid-Century's Kitchen, America's Favorite Room, and

0:54

more. We love Sarah Archer so

0:56

much she's been here before. She's

0:58

written for Architectural Digest, of course,

1:01

The New Yorker, Huffington Post, American

1:03

Craft, and Slate among others. You

1:06

Are Good, if you're new to this whole thing,

1:09

is what we call a feelings podcast

1:11

about movies. We talk about movies, but

1:13

we are not film critics necessarily. We

1:15

just talk about the movies and how they illustrate

1:17

the ways that we and other people relate to

1:20

the world. We talk about

1:22

feelings. We talk about sometimes mental

1:24

healthy things, sometimes just like what

1:26

the movie speaks to in us.

1:29

We have a good time doing it. So

1:31

again, if you're new, welcome. We're happy that you're

1:33

here. How are you doing? What is

1:36

going on in your world? How

1:38

are you feeling? What

1:40

are you thinking about? What are you watching? Let

1:42

us know. You can find You Are

1:44

Good at YouAreGood or YouAreGoodPod, depending on which

1:46

of the networks we're on, on social media.

1:49

Let me know what you're reading. Let me know

1:51

what the climate is like where

1:53

you are. I mean, I understand the

1:56

bigger climate picture, but what is this

1:58

week like for you? out of

2:00

doors. What's it look like out

2:02

there? I'm in Los Angeles, California. We're in the

2:04

70s right now. We're getting into the 80s real

2:07

soon. I'm looking at all sorts

2:09

of beautiful flora. And you know, if

2:11

you haven't heard this sort of thing lately, I hope

2:13

you don't forget that you,

2:15

my friend, are good. You

2:18

are good at feeling podcasts about movies is

2:20

made possible with and by your support. Thanks

2:22

to everyone who supports us on Patreon or

2:24

Apple podcast subscriptions. Uh,

2:27

you get bonus episodes by supporting us.

2:29

You help make the show possible. That's

2:31

important. We appreciate it. We can't do

2:33

it without support. Uh, it makes this

2:35

part of our jobs. And, uh, we

2:37

appreciate that that is on the table

2:39

for us. And again, in

2:42

exchange for that support, you get bonus

2:44

episodes. We have a bonus episode about

2:46

mannequin two coming out this

2:49

month that we recorded with river butcher. We already

2:51

have one out about mannequin one. This one is

2:53

about uh, we've got

2:55

some other bonus content coming up for you.

2:57

Our last one was about the iron claw.

3:00

Got a lot going on. If you

3:02

like me are an advocate for

3:04

ceasefire, please find ways to

3:07

get involved locally or in

3:09

your community. And if you're looking

3:11

for ways to offer material support

3:13

to help alleviate some hardship, you

3:16

can look into the Palestine children's

3:18

relief fund and we'll have that

3:20

linked in the show notes.

3:23

I don't know. I think that's it for this

3:25

intro. Let's keep it short and sweet so we

3:27

can go talk about dogs and

3:30

laughing. Do

3:33

the most important things as far as I'm concerned

3:35

dogs. Laughing. These are

3:37

the things that keep me going. Again,

3:40

thanks for being here. We appreciate

3:42

you. We're glad we get to do this with you. Uh,

3:46

let's get into it. Shall we? Hello,

3:59

Sarah. Marshall. Hello Alex Seed. Do

4:01

you want me to sing you your favorite

4:03

song? Yes I do. They

4:06

buried William in the

4:08

old churchyard. They

4:10

buried Barbara beside

4:12

him. Sarah please join

4:14

in if you want. And from

4:17

his grave, red, red,

4:19

rose. And out of

4:21

his, the prior. Don't

4:24

stay up too late. Don't

4:28

stay up all night. Don't stay up all night

4:30

watching old movies. Tyrone.

4:34

Sir, what's on our agenda, what's

4:36

on the plate today? What's in

4:38

the bowl? Well,

4:41

it's some Yucanuba dog

4:43

food because we are talking about

4:45

Best in Show, one of the

4:47

most quotable movies of the

4:49

last 25 years and we're doing it

4:51

with Sarah's and Stereo

4:54

because we have Sarah Archer

4:56

back. Hello. Hello

4:59

Sarah. What an absolute delight. So

5:01

nice to be back. Sarah, if you

5:03

were a show dog, what kind would

5:05

you be? Oh gosh, that's

5:07

such a good question. That's such a good question. I

5:09

want to say not the

5:11

sporting group. Probably a toy of some kind to, you know,

5:17

maybe like poise, but not totally coordinated. Maybe

5:19

a Cavalier King Charles. I mean, that's not

5:21

a toy, but you know, but kind of

5:23

in the same ballpark that seems about right.

5:25

Like able to kind of get up to

5:28

a trot in the park, but like that's

5:30

pretty much where, you know, where it stops.

5:32

Smurfial, what's yours? Um, if

5:35

I were a show dog, something

5:38

could be done in real songs. Yeah.

5:40

Well, I would love to be like

5:42

a Shih Tzu, like Agnes in this

5:44

movie, who's forever being carried around by

5:47

Scott Donlan. I mean, that's,

5:49

that's the move to be carried out everywhere

5:51

by Scott or anybody really, but Scott Donlan

5:53

in particular. I do. Yeah. I mean, that's

5:55

my first choice. And then my safety is

5:57

being carried around by everybody. I

6:00

like to think I have a terrier

6:02

spirit, you know, although I certainly don't

6:04

work as hard as a terrier, but I get scared

6:06

when the doorbell rings. Very

6:08

comfortable. Yeah, I think that I would be

6:10

like a little Jack Russell. I

6:13

would be in the terrier group and I would be a little

6:15

bit too high strung, but I would do

6:17

better with agility. Not

6:20

that I'm actual as a human, but as a dog,

6:23

I think my nervous energy would fit with that,

6:25

you know, because we would have different lives as

6:27

dogs. Alex, what about you? I don't, I mean,

6:29

I think that I would be one

6:32

of those bearded terriers, like a Scottish

6:34

terrier, but like one of the ones that

6:36

you're surprised to find out isn't as smart

6:38

as you thought it would be. Like

6:40

a Schnauzer? I mean, that's different, but

6:42

they have a big beard. I'm

6:45

thinking like very specifically of like the little

6:47

Monopoly guy, but like bigger. Like a

6:49

Scotty dog? Yeah. Old

6:51

Scotty. He's the Monopoly guy. We're

6:53

talking today about dogs. Some are

6:55

big, some are small, some are

6:58

even smaller. Some with coats so

7:00

silky, they look like they were woven

7:02

by a giant spider. And

7:05

we're talking about the people who take care

7:07

of the dogs. And boy,

7:10

how to introduce Best in Show. Well,

7:12

I am curious about why

7:15

Sarah Archer, you picked this

7:17

movie to bring into the

7:19

conversation. I was actually amazed

7:21

that you guys hadn't done it yet. So

7:24

a Critter movie, I mean, that's just like

7:26

it's all the good girls and boys. It's

7:28

just dog, Palooza, you can't not love it.

7:30

But the other thing that in rewatching it

7:33

and kind of thinking about it as a

7:35

grown up struck me is that most

7:38

people have had the experience, especially as

7:40

they get older, of maybe picking up

7:42

a new hobby, sport,

7:45

taking a class somewhere, kind of doing a thing

7:47

to sort of to get away. I'm going to

7:49

get away from all the craziness of my work,

7:51

work or whatever kind of being a grown up. And

7:55

that, you know, let's say it's ferrets

7:57

or something, you know, then you discover that

7:59

there. internist scene ferret

8:01

people feuds. And

8:03

there's somebody who clocks that you're new,

8:06

wants to pull you in

8:08

to ex parte conversations about ferret

8:10

gossip. And then it's like, so then it's revealed

8:12

to you that internist scene ferret feuds are life

8:14

itself. Like you're never getting away. And

8:16

that's what these movies, this kind of

8:18

quartet of films, I think it is

8:20

for them that Christopher Guest, Eugene Levy,

8:23

captures so beautifully about these

8:26

endeavors that are superficially trivial

8:28

to outsiders, but the people in them

8:30

take them deadly seriously. So they think

8:32

you're going to have like a breezy

8:34

time. It's just life. It's

8:36

just regular life with people having weird agendas and

8:38

feuds and stuff going on and trying to calculate

8:41

the right number of kimonos to bring to Philadelphia

8:43

and all that kind of stuff. So I think

8:45

that now as a grown up, because I saw

8:47

it when I was I was pretty young, as

8:50

a grown up, that's the thing that really strikes me

8:52

about it. One of the things, speaking to what you

8:54

had just said about through the background of this community

8:56

is on the highest ranked YouTube

8:59

comment on under this movie is the

9:01

funny fact about this movie is there

9:03

are really people who behave this way

9:05

in the real world. This

9:13

is something that I've gleaned from

9:15

partially from being a hobbyist figure

9:17

skater, but mostly from being in

9:20

and around the art world and

9:22

specifically the craft world, where

9:24

there are small studios and kind

9:27

of struggling nonprofits and people who

9:29

are valiantly keeping traditions alive. And

9:31

it's something that it's almost like when

9:35

people have a Fantasia, like,

9:38

I'm going to be an Eileen Fisher model

9:40

and walk through the fields, and I'm going

9:42

to quit my job, and I'm going to

9:44

make pots like that. There's a very powerful

9:47

lure of kind of

9:49

wanting to check, you know, just clock out of

9:51

society and kind of wear linen and make pots.

9:53

And then they they land in the

9:55

community. And they're like, well, you're new

9:57

here. I don't know who you think

10:00

you are, but this is my wheel. It's this

10:02

very kind of fraught, because

10:04

in marginalized communities, which a

10:06

lot of these places are, it's something that people

10:08

don't take seriously, they don't have enough money, you

10:12

get a lot of that spiky experience

10:14

in the place that you think you're going to

10:16

not have that. Mm-hmm. And

10:19

there's a fantasy that the margins of

10:21

real life end somewhere, and there's a

10:23

place where the sidewalk ends. Exactly. And

10:26

where you go, people are going

10:28

to be weird and intense and gossipy. Yep.

10:31

Well, and that's what's so wonderful about all the humans

10:33

in Best in Show, that they're kind of as

10:35

examples of type, like examples of breed.

10:37

They're sort of, you've got the country

10:39

guy and the urban guys and the

10:42

lawyers and with braces, that's the

10:44

type, I guess, and the kind

10:47

of complicated, rich lesbian, trophy wife

10:49

situation. And there's all these different

10:52

types of people that exist in this world.

10:54

I do like to think that it is

10:57

based on reality. I can't say for sure.

10:59

I think so. I mean, to

11:01

some extent. I mean, I think what I love about this movie,

11:03

and there was a period in 2020 when I watched it

11:06

like maybe 12 times, you know, because

11:08

when I would find something that like gave

11:11

me some dopamine, I would just keep pressing the button

11:13

until I got tired of it. And

11:15

it's such a funny movie. It works so

11:18

well and is kind of, I think, the

11:20

best proof of concept of this format that

11:22

we have maybe. And

11:25

it also is in its own way,

11:27

very optimistic. Like some of these couples,

11:30

really all of these couples are

11:32

good for each other, you know? They

11:35

have a lot going on in every, in the best case

11:37

scenario, which I guess would, I would say, who's the best

11:39

case scenario couple? Is it like, is it the flex? I

11:41

think it's the Vanderhoofs. Maybe

11:43

it's the Vanderhoofs. Yeah. Because even

11:45

there, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot going on. Yeah. But

11:48

maybe, okay. So let's get into our

11:50

story. In the late 90s, we

11:52

were all so excited about documentaries. And I think in

11:54

the same year, we got Best in Show and the

11:56

Blair Witch Project. So we were very spoiled. Oh,

11:59

fascinating. Isn't that interesting? Yeah.

12:01

That's so interesting. That has something to do

12:03

with something. Yeah. Coming off, Drop Dead

12:05

Gorgeous, which is great. Yeah. God.

12:07

Oh my god. And what

12:10

an incredible movie and

12:12

also a perfect documentary. But

12:15

so this is filmed

12:17

very much like how on

12:19

sentimental garbage they speculate about what kind of

12:21

documentaries Lisa Todd Wexley is making. And I'm

12:24

just like that. This is the kind

12:26

of documentary Lisa Todd Wexley makes.

12:30

You find some groups of people to follow

12:32

to a dog show. You've got a lot

12:34

of footage. You cut it down.

12:36

I don't think hers would be as funny. But

12:38

it's that kind of format. And that you

12:40

especially would see so much on TV in

12:43

the 90s. Or

12:45

like local arts funding paid for documentaries

12:47

like this. Yeah. I remember there was

12:49

also a movie about people who do

12:51

crossword puzzles. There was a

12:53

whole suite of the. Oh yeah. The

12:55

Will Schwartz one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

12:58

Before the internet came and told us

13:00

how everyone is all the time, we

13:02

had to go and watch documentaries about

13:04

it. Right. Because I hate to over

13:06

explain the 90s all the time. But it

13:08

is a remarkable cultural shift. But if I

13:10

want to know what the lace making community

13:13

is shooting about, I can just

13:15

look it up. I can get that information in

13:17

three seconds. And someone will have done a

13:19

drama channel video about it. And I

13:22

can spend like 57 minutes listening to

13:24

it while I do dishes. And

13:27

back then, you had to just wait

13:29

for a local PBS affiliate to bother

13:31

thinking about it. Or you

13:33

had to know people. Yeah. You had to go

13:35

to a place and get amongst it. Terrible. Terrible

13:38

time. And

13:40

I mean, you know, and I'm joking sort of. But

13:43

it does feel like information is

13:46

so abundant now that it doesn't feel

13:48

as valuable in a way. Yeah. Totally.

13:50

Well, this thing, the intimate look, I can

13:53

remember my favorite version of this what

13:55

is the West Memphis 3 trio of documentaries? Paradise

13:58

Lost. Paradise Lost, which is. just like

14:00

the stepfather, like and

14:02

there's like such like a character in that movie

14:04

who you see this arc over time and I

14:07

remember that was like one of the first documentaries

14:09

I ever watched where I was like I need

14:11

to know more about that guy and like how

14:13

these people are or like whatever and

14:16

now that I can know how everyone

14:18

is all the time knowing not the

14:20

concept of knowing anybody makes

14:22

me want to be alone. Yeah

14:26

and there's so much information that you could find so

14:28

easily but you're just like I don't really want to

14:30

know I'm tired of knowing things. I've

14:33

learned so many things before breakfast. I

14:35

kind of feel like a dog show is the

14:38

perfect vehicle for a documentary structured like this

14:40

because it's kind of like how you

14:42

know like every four years everyone is like knows

14:44

nothing about snowboarding and then they're like

14:46

I you know two minutes later I

14:48

would die for XYZ athlete who's you

14:51

know has a great backstory. Like

14:53

there's not a lot of celebrities in the dog

14:55

show world even though it you know it comes

14:57

on TV like around you know

14:59

whatever it is Thanksgiving so you can

15:02

kind of project onto it it's just

15:04

this kind of stadium hall full of

15:06

characters you don't really know who they

15:08

are the judges are renowned

15:10

in the field but nobody knows who they

15:12

are and so it's the

15:14

perfect canvas even now I think. Oh

15:16

yeah every Thanksgiving right and like inside

15:19

of three hours you like pick your

15:21

favorites for no reason

15:23

except that you like them. They're so

15:25

cute and you don't really look at the people which

15:27

is interesting too where it's when you when it's televised

15:29

it feels like it's really all about the dogs and

15:31

the people are just these random like mother of the

15:34

bride 1982 looking grown-ups who were you

15:38

know kind of hustling across the floor

15:40

right yeah yeah like fourth pictures and

15:42

the camera is low because the dogs

15:44

are low so it really kind of like it trains

15:46

your eye on all the little

15:48

guys and sometimes when watching like a real

15:51

dog show when the dog is small

15:53

enough to be like put in the cup that's

15:55

my favorite Like that's you know what I mean

15:57

It's like a like a little you know, a shih tzu or uh.

16:00

Idiots. They just carry on and there's do

16:02

they like it. That's the kind. Of big

16:04

question they probably like up for a second

16:06

visit requests and Fred Willard house is what

16:08

are on what's going on to these dogs

16:10

That's in that I hadn't even thought about

16:12

that with regard to the positioning of this

16:15

really feel vegas or episode because worse where

16:17

one minute in and we are breaking down

16:19

others were movie where it's technically and that

16:21

I'm is it's the like the i love

16:23

that you brought up the thing about like

16:25

the cameras being opens the dogs because like

16:27

it I had never even thought about the

16:30

fact that the couple that Parker Posey isn't

16:32

so that they were opening with. Them and

16:34

therapies dealing with the fact that the

16:36

dog has seen them spots and so

16:38

on. putting my see seen them attempting

16:40

say when I never very successful away

16:42

then we are we that us like

16:45

we the audience or my watch. The

16:47

humans suck for like an hour and

16:49

a house and it's gonna be extremely

16:51

unsettling. Exactly. I know

16:53

it yet. Pripyat as soon I can

16:55

be at press. Yes

16:58

our so we are of opening and

17:00

ending of the movie is on Are

17:02

you happy couple? Mag and Hamilton? Salon

17:04

Persistency who really got braces for

17:06

the thrall to see really see

17:08

really dead. God bless her how

17:11

is dedicated to the craft and

17:13

it opens with her talking about

17:15

power and they're seeing this very

17:17

serious therapist. me like business has

17:19

been showing signs of. Upper

17:22

hand. And. He can't see

17:24

Beatrice if you're coming to this movie

17:26

fresh for his know now that area

17:28

you're like oh, they're talking about their

17:30

child and Parker Posey like very it.

17:33

Unhappily recalls how she was

17:35

getting into a position that

17:37

was very difficult for me.

17:39

Some. Number Slater's. Us

17:43

prosecuted Martha Maccallum. Oh.

17:47

My. God. Yeah. I'm and then

17:49

we just like as you know, eventually pan over

17:51

to be at who's Who Turns out to be

17:54

the Slammer. Enter who is. Completely.

17:56

Sprawled on a little

17:59

says. As issues with a

18:01

be here for Friday and analysis and like

18:03

the sight gag of the camera panning over

18:05

to be at his his his flake. Very.

18:08

Much to die in his can. A eight

18:10

looks up a little bit late. It's so

18:13

perfect It's a perfect jokes it's so good.

18:15

And so we have five couples. it's also this

18:17

is also movie. About people's and relationships which

18:19

I think is so interesting we have

18:22

for Cut Will. We have four couples

18:24

and a single ten frame and I've

18:26

I've read Christopher Guest talking about how

18:28

he is often like cast himself and

18:31

his own selves as loners. That seems

18:33

to describe how everyone describes vote which

18:35

is a very which inside himself difficult

18:37

to access person mode, a very kind

18:40

person. It seems like to to send

18:42

anyone who's gotten through him to join.

18:44

She's extremely lovely but like it seems

18:46

like there's a a couple protective. Crunchy

18:49

outer layers. Ah, like a

18:51

not as he? Well, yes,

18:54

But what kind of? not? that all

18:56

natural? First

18:59

Harlan Tapper you quit

19:01

name and nets. Ah

19:07

yeah and so were introduced.

19:09

To and Sherry and Cookie Slack

19:11

who are of course are great

19:13

Love story of the cell play

19:15

Beijing and levying Catherine O'hara they

19:17

live in for in city Florida

19:19

and Cookie is showing at like

19:21

a very backyard looking local dog

19:24

show at their dog Winky his

19:26

Interrupts Terrier. And I've also read

19:28

that lake. The. Two of them

19:30

developed a backstory for their characters were

19:32

they have like befriended this old lady

19:34

who left them a show dog and

19:36

that's where they have when Kilos and

19:38

when he's also. I'm gonna go on

19:40

a limb and say that in a

19:43

rather intense no way. Winky as the

19:45

dog with the most charm. And this

19:47

movie because you know, dogs are generally

19:49

fairly active, but based just like the

19:51

way we see the dogs in this

19:53

movie consistently and the way that it's

19:55

edited, I think there's an intentional emphasis

19:57

on showing them when they're doing. Basically.

20:00

nothing because so much of

20:02

the story is about how much their owners

20:04

are using the dogs as a proxy

20:06

to describe their own feelings and the dogs are just

20:08

like, I don't know. Like,

20:10

you can't find the toy. I don't care. Fine.

20:13

She's freaking out. Oh my God. Because

20:16

what my mom is like with her

20:18

dog and understandably, but like, you know,

20:20

there'll be times when she is super

20:22

stressed about something and she's like, Bo

20:24

is so unhappy. And I'm like, you're

20:27

unhappy. Oh,

20:29

doesn't know what's going on. Bo's

20:31

thinking about dinner, you know? That's

20:33

so funny. And maybe I'm wrong. But

20:36

that right. But that's such a thing that people do with

20:38

their pets. Oh, of course. Yeah. So

20:40

who do we have? We have Cookie and Jerry

20:42

Fleck and the dynamic that we set up is

20:45

that before they met Cookie had Jerry says she

20:47

had dozens of boyfriends and Cookie

20:49

says, I did not know that. And

20:52

so the whole movie is them running

20:54

into her ex-boyfriends and Jerry being stressed

20:56

about it. And that could be

20:58

the whole joke, right? But again, like all these

21:00

characters feel so lived in and like when

21:03

we're introduced to them, I love the moment

21:05

where they're talking about meeting at a dance.

21:07

He didn't want to dance because he has

21:09

two left feet literally, which he does literally

21:12

incredible. And he's like telling

21:14

this sort of like funny, but like a

21:16

little bit sad backstory about how when he

21:18

was growing up, they used to call him

21:20

loopy because he walked in the loop.

21:23

But then with some therapy, I learned how to

21:26

walk in a straight line. And then she's like,

21:28

and dance. You've got

21:30

moves even better than winky, I think. And

21:32

he's like, wow, you know, and

21:34

just seems like moments that feel very

21:36

real and of tenderness between the couples.

21:38

Like it's rare to have that in

21:40

this kind of a movie, I think.

21:42

Oh, extremely. They're not cartoon characters. Like

21:45

they really, I mean, they're wacky, but

21:47

that's like real affection. Yeah.

21:49

They have that really beautiful scene where he's describing

21:51

how she wants to go hundreds of miles out

21:53

of the way to meet some couple that they

21:55

met a couple of years ago. Now to meet

21:58

her ex-boyfriend from before they were together. Right.

22:00

Yeah. Thank you. And it gets tense for

22:02

a second. And then she kisses them and

22:04

she says like, this is why it works.

22:06

And it's so nice. I

22:09

went back three times to hear her say, this

22:12

is why it works. And I don't know why

22:14

that's so sweet. It's

22:16

really great. It's really great that like the

22:18

more you watch it, the more you kind

22:21

of notice these little moments between the characters.

22:23

And then we have Harlan Pepper, our

22:26

singleton, who's played by Christopher Guest, name

22:28

a nuts, who is from Pine

22:31

Nut, North Carolina. And he has

22:33

a bloodhound named Hubert who again

22:35

is projecting nothing. Such

22:39

a love bug. Oh my God.

22:41

Yeah. And then we have the

22:43

Vanderhoof's, Stefan Vanderhoof and

22:46

Scott Donlan and Tribeca. And

22:49

they, again, like, I love their relationship

22:52

and they talk about like the backstory that

22:54

Michael McKeon who plays Stefan gives on how they met

22:56

is like, you know,

22:58

he was like at a party with his ex

23:00

wife, which is such a beautifully slipped in bit

23:02

of backstory. And I saw

23:05

his nibs over there and I said,

23:07

who's that? And she said, that's Scott. He

23:09

shows a good dog, you know, and

23:12

they started going out. They liked the same things. And

23:16

they're like the great American love story writ large, us,

23:19

you know, and I feel watching it, but like,

23:23

it's not my place as not a gay man to

23:25

come down ethically on having gay couples played

23:29

by straight actors in the nineties. But it was what we

23:31

were doing at the time. And this is the best that

23:33

you can get, I think from that. I

23:36

Googled a little bit to find out that the

23:38

guy who plays Scott Donlan is straight. And I

23:40

was, it's like, it blew my mind. Yeah. He

23:43

later plays very like an extremely, very, very, very, very, very, very,

23:48

like an extremely straight series of

23:51

like smarmy characters on the Pitch

23:53

Perfect series. Yeah. Huh? It's mind

23:56

blowing range. Yeah. And all these

23:58

people are chameleons. Well, they

24:00

have two Shih Tzu, right? They have like girl,

24:02

boy, Shih Tzu. Agnes and

24:04

Tyrone. And Agnes is a

24:07

competitor and Tyrone is home

24:09

watching old movies. Yeah. What happened with

24:11

Tyrone? Yeah, what's going on? I

24:14

don't know. And

24:16

then finally, of course, we have what I

24:19

think of as like utopian Anna

24:21

Nicole Smith fanfiction. We

24:24

have Jennifer Coolidge in a really

24:26

star making role for her as

24:28

Sherry Ann Cabot, who's married to

24:30

a man who's 90 years old

24:32

if he's a day. And

24:34

Cabot is like such a Boston society name.

24:37

So you kind of can easily infer like

24:39

she's married into old money. And

24:41

she's very like, you know, lip liner

24:44

outside the lips, kind of an aesthetic.

24:46

They have a standard poodle and we

24:48

meet her handler

24:50

with whom she has a wonderful

24:53

working relationship, Kristy Cummings, played

24:55

by Jane Lynch. Too

24:58

perfection. Oh my God. This is Jane Lynch's

25:00

finest role, I feel like. Yeah. What do

25:02

you like about it? It's so

25:04

perfect for her. I mean, she kind of

25:06

eventually does a version of this on Glee,

25:08

but like it's like more menacing, but like

25:11

the like lived in

25:13

confident, quietly, sexually

25:15

aggressive lesbian that

25:18

makes people feel kind of ill at ease

25:20

in a really great way, but

25:22

feeling ill it is because she's extraordinarily confident,

25:25

but not loudly. There's like a weird quietness

25:27

about her confidence. And I forgot, like one

25:29

of those to you guys says that she

25:31

looks like a cocktail waitress on an oil

25:33

rig. Piping. Look

25:35

at the piping. My favorite scene

25:38

with her has got to be

25:41

she kind of saunters up to Harlan Pepper

25:43

and Hubris. Oh my

25:45

God. Chit chatting about like this. Oh,

25:47

you know, slobber. There's such a cute,

25:50

you know, cutie pie and then like a

25:52

handle wraps it in white. She is playing

25:54

the game. Yeah. She says I handle Rhapsody

25:56

in white and this almost like like. And

26:00

he handles it so well. It's

26:03

like, I mean, can you imagine like somebody

26:05

sort of like, you're a

26:07

minor celebrity in an arcane field and

26:09

then you kind of walk up to somebody

26:12

like, listen, country boy.

26:14

Exactly. Do you know who I

26:16

am? You know who I am? And he's like, I do and

26:18

I don't. I died. I've

26:23

seen this so many times, but for some reason that

26:25

really got me as I was like, I'm going to

26:27

find a way to use that in my life. I

26:29

do and I don't. What do you think about the

26:32

way that Harlan played that, Alex? I

26:34

just, I mean, I love, you know,

26:36

like I think typically the dynamic

26:38

with Jane Lynch is that someone who

26:41

otherwise believes that they're confident in who

26:43

they are gets undone by being sort

26:45

of matched with her. Like

26:48

he's a guy who's going to really

26:50

get into ventriloquism later. Like, so she's

26:53

not undone by it at all. He's not embarrassed

26:55

about not really knowing who she is. He just

26:57

isn't quite sure what to do with her. And

26:59

someone, another one of the comments on YouTube was

27:02

like, a reason why this movie works

27:04

so well. And I mean, this is such a simple

27:06

explanation, but like it really sort of got me thinking

27:08

about it. It's like the reason

27:10

this movie when these movies work so well is

27:13

you have these extremely

27:15

interesting, quirky, strange, lovable

27:17

characters who should understand

27:19

when other people are being weird, but

27:21

they find the other people weird too.

27:25

And so you see the dynamic of like all

27:27

of these people being weirded out by each other

27:29

in some way. That's

27:31

so true. Yeah. That's like

27:33

the other, my other favorite one is the cocktail party

27:36

scene where the Flex and the Vanderhoofs

27:38

kind of bond. Yes, I love that.

27:40

And Scott decides, it's like, well, listen to

27:42

you all of a sudden. And he's

27:44

like, he's showing off his pants and his

27:47

stitching. Yeah. I

27:49

know. Yeah. He's

27:51

finding his voice. He is. Yeah. And

27:53

because you spend so much time inside of

27:55

a character while you're doing all

27:57

of the hours of improv that guy.

28:00

that boil down to this, it feels like you

28:02

can't play a character that you don't in some

28:04

way love or respect, I think. Right. If

28:07

not respect, then certainly love. I hate a

28:09

movie where they don't. Right. And

28:11

I only know it feels wise, like I

28:13

know that I've seen a bunch of movies

28:15

that do this and like maybe I just

28:17

didn't even let them continue to exist in

28:19

my psyche, but like I cannot and I

28:21

have much less taste for it than ever

28:23

before. Like I can't stand a movie that

28:25

presents even just like complicated, difficult, quote, bad

28:27

characters without some love for them. I just

28:29

have no interest in them. And

28:32

I don't think this movie does that to anybody. No.

28:35

No. Even Fred Willard has

28:37

like a couple of good ideas. Well, no, he's asking

28:39

good questions. He is. I just

28:41

read Ed Begley Jr.'s biography, which was

28:43

really lovely. And even he just has

28:46

like, I think his character

28:48

in this movie is Christopher Getz. Because

28:51

he's watching them all and like, he

28:54

does this kindness for him, which he

28:56

absolutely doesn't have to do. And like,

28:58

he loves these people who he finds

29:00

strange and maybe even kind of annoying

29:02

because it's like interrupting the flow of

29:04

what he's doing. But he's like, here's

29:06

a room for you so you can do this. And

29:10

it's not an ideal circumstance, obviously. But

29:12

like, I kind of get the sense

29:14

that like, that is

29:16

how Christopher Getz sees these people. Yeah,

29:19

that seems apt. Like he's the host. Right.

29:22

In the Mayflower, which sadly was not actually filmed in

29:24

Philadelphia. I checked. Boo.

29:27

And is Philadelphia where they host the Westminster

29:29

or whatever it is at Thanksgiving every year?

29:31

There's definitely, I don't know if it's Westminster,

29:34

but it's definitely one of them. It

29:36

might be like the National Dog Show, but

29:38

I think it has been. Yeah, I keep

29:40

meaning to come to the Philadelphia, I think

29:42

it's called the Philadelphia Miniature Show

29:45

of the big miniature convention

29:47

in the fall. Oh, shit.

29:49

Right. Yeah. Let

29:51

me know if you decide to do that because I'm on

29:54

it. Well, yeah. And you love minis. Oh, God. Yeah.

29:57

I'm just going to compile again. I'm going to compile the most

29:59

specifically Sarah Marche. I went to a miniature show

30:01

in Portland at like the Monarch Hotel or something

30:03

in 2019 and

30:07

it was one of the most fun things I've

30:09

ever done. Didn't you cry? You cried, right? I

30:12

did. I'm sure I cried. Yeah.

30:15

I think that that's incredible. Like these things that move us.

30:17

Yeah. Who knows what it's pulling at? But

30:19

like it's, I'm getting, I'm getting emotional. Well,

30:22

I am just so excited. Was

30:25

it the craftsmanship? Like what was it that made you moved? Was

30:27

it the like the dedication? Part of it I

30:29

think is that some of these scenes and

30:32

places that people construct in miniature

30:45

and Sarah, you've told me some of what I

30:47

know about kind of miniature history because I remember

30:49

what were, what are the houses that like women

30:51

would have? Oh, the popin hoos. The

30:53

doll. There were these things called

30:56

cabinet houses and they're, I think popin hoos just

30:59

actually means doll house in Dutch, which I'm probably

31:01

pronouncing totally wrong, but it was kind of around

31:03

the time of the tulip mania, sort of the

31:05

Dutch golden age. Vegas had too much money. They were

31:07

having some fun. They had like a lot of cash.

31:09

It was, they had, right. And they would

31:11

sometimes the women, there's one named, I think

31:13

Petronella von Kort, I want to say, or a van Oort.

31:16

And you can see it online. If you Google, go

31:18

to like the Rijksmuseum.nl or whatever it is. Don't

31:21

cut this Miranda. It's crucial. It's

31:23

critical. And the thing that's

31:25

incredible about them is that the women would sometimes

31:27

hire life size craftsmen, but

31:29

not that the craftsmen were life size,

31:32

but that they made life, you know,

31:34

brass chandeliers or delftware. Right. Like

31:36

people who write again. So it's like,

31:38

it took me a second. The real,

31:40

you know, floor tiles, carpets, like all

31:42

to kind of recreate things in

31:45

miniature and create these incredible houses.

31:47

And it was at a time when women couldn't own

31:50

property in their own right. So they were able to

31:52

kind of create these little

31:54

dominions and become patrons of the art,

31:57

but like 128 size. Yeah,

32:00

and I think part of what it makes me

32:02

think about is temporality, right? That like

32:04

if I make a garden scene, I

32:06

can do like a twilight

32:09

garden and the night-blooming series

32:11

is opening and I

32:13

can sort of capture a moment in miniature

32:15

that in real life is extremely fleeting, but

32:17

in miniature it can last forever and you

32:19

can have the perfect place that you can

32:22

never be inside of. I

32:24

think that's true of pets, honestly too. I

32:27

mean that's the thing about like this

32:29

way in which pets kind of take

32:31

a snapshot of a phase of your

32:33

life. It'll be like high school to grad

32:35

school or like when you first met your

32:37

husband to being middle-aged or whatever,

32:40

like that kind of bracket. They don't live unless

32:42

you have one of those turtles that like remembers the

32:44

Civil War. Like you don't have a

32:46

pet that lives your whole lifespan and

32:48

so you're saying goodbye at every turn

32:51

to this kind of slice

32:53

of your past in a sense and I think

32:55

there's a way in which pets in

32:57

that they're literally small but also that they're

32:59

kind of like they have these sort of miniature

33:01

lives, right? Like they're kind of little, they

33:04

have shorter lifespans, they kind of have a

33:06

foreshortened world because they kind of live in

33:09

your house. So there's certain parallels there.

33:11

Yeah, no, I love that. And

33:13

then yeah, so they're all bringing their

33:15

dogs to the Mayflower Show, which is

33:17

the big national show where they're going

33:20

to crown the champion. So we have

33:22

Winky who, you know, the Flex are

33:24

definitely our underdogs here. They show up

33:26

to the hotel and don't have enough

33:28

money to pay for a room and

33:30

so Alex, as you were

33:32

describing earlier, at Bagley Jr., gives

33:35

them a room in the utility

33:37

closet. Yeah. Yeah, his

33:39

trying to soften the blow of

33:41

every bit of information he has

33:43

is so sweet. I know. Yeah.

33:46

And yeah, so we have Raph today in

33:48

white is our two-time former champion and Christy

33:50

clearly believe she's going to win again. Odds

33:53

on favorite, there's a big party to celebrate

33:55

her with an ice sculpture. Oh my God.

33:58

Yeah. Yeah. which

34:00

is great. We get to see the Vanderhoofs and the

34:02

Flex meet, and also we get

34:04

to see Harlan meet the

34:06

Yuppies, which I also

34:09

love because we have them leaving Beatrice in

34:11

the hotel room, and Parker Posey

34:13

doesn't want to go to the party. So they're

34:15

like, Beatrice doesn't want us to go. And he's

34:18

like, Mommy and Daddy will only be

34:20

away for a little while. Not

34:22

the lips, not on the lips. Good riddance. I

34:26

think that this is like Margo and

34:28

Todd from Christmas vacation are the best

34:30

on screen Yuppies, I think. But this

34:32

is, I think, my second favorite collection

34:34

of Yuppies on screen. He was

34:36

working on his Mac. Is that LLB? You mind if I

34:39

check the label? There

34:42

was a New Yorker cartoon like years ago,

34:44

like around this time when like Starbucks was

34:46

sort of like becoming a self-aware phenomenon. And

34:48

there was a caption, there were like two

34:51

people sitting in a cafe and it was

34:53

the caption is like, are we at the

34:55

Starbucks or the one across the street? Which

34:57

I still find so funny. And

34:59

I wonder, I've always kind of wondered if

35:02

that inspired the whole like I was working

35:04

on my Mac, you know, exchange. Yeah, honey,

35:06

what's new? What's new? Yeah,

35:09

and so yeah, we're heading into the

35:11

Mayflower. And then there's really this lovely,

35:15

the structure again is very simple and I think works

35:17

really well. And so halfway in, the narration

35:20

is kind of handed off to Fred Willard

35:23

and Jim Piddock, who are our

35:25

color commentator and our

35:27

straight man commentator for the Mayflower.

35:29

Perfection. And watching the

35:32

other commentator, the non-Fred Willard commentator

35:34

whose name is escaping me. Trevor

35:37

Beckwith. Trevor Beckwith. Watching Trevor

35:40

Beckwith's patience gradually be

35:42

eroded is incredible. Fred

35:45

Willard makes some like off-color joke and Trevor Beckwith

35:48

is like, yes, I believe you said that last

35:50

year. Yeah. That's

35:53

so brilliant because like you're the whole time you're like, how's

35:55

he dealing with this? And then you're like, Oh, no, he's

35:57

had to deal with this before. But

36:01

then when Fred Willard notices the two left

36:03

feet and then Bec rather is like, I

36:05

can't believe I was saying this, but I

36:07

think that you're right. And

36:11

then like the big, you know, the line

36:14

about ham too, it's like, yeah, the

36:16

actress loses

36:18

her shit totally understandably because

36:20

she's had had it

36:22

with the swans and the whole it could

36:24

be all of it. I think this

36:26

is best of breed. Yeah. And then

36:28

he qualified like immediately. Immediately in his Fred

36:31

Willard's he's going after her like she's made out

36:33

of ham. The poor woman, but

36:35

it was kind of accurate. Yeah.

36:39

And you know, and so we're heading toward

36:41

our conclusion, but I feel like, you know,

36:43

this movie happens in great parts and like

36:45

legendary moments. And I would love for

36:47

you to just toss out, like, what did

36:49

you enjoy about this ride? You know, you

36:52

go first. We

36:55

do have to talk about Busy B. Okay.

36:58

Can I tell you that of all the quotable things

37:01

in this movie, my husband is one of those

37:03

people who is real good on like dates and

37:05

times and knowing, you know, getting on the road

37:07

on time and knowing whether we're in Pennsylvania or

37:09

New Jersey at any given time when we're in

37:12

the car. What Starbucks here

37:14

in exactly what he knows what

37:16

Starbucks room at all times. So what

37:18

on occasion, I'm a freelancer. This is,

37:20

you know, calendars are not my strongest

37:22

suit. I'll ask him what may seem

37:24

like a very obvious question. He'll sort

37:26

of say, like, it's Tuesday, baby. Like,

37:28

what are you a wizard? I

37:34

mean, to my mind, like he is a wizard

37:36

genius because he's like, you know,

37:38

he's such a way for knowing. But so

37:40

that is the sort of quotable moment

37:42

for me that and this is

37:45

a bear wearing a bee costume.

37:48

You know, watching them unravel is

37:50

beautiful. Oh my God. Unravel

37:52

is the perfect way to describe it.

37:54

She's just absolutely. And the poor thing,

37:57

she's doing her best. And what's his,

37:59

you know, Hamilton. It's just be

38:01

the dingus. Yeah, Meg has gone off to

38:03

get busy be and then Hamilton is like

38:05

in the poor dog's face going Don't

38:08

look at the fat-ass losers and freaks

38:10

you look at me He's

38:12

a show mom the best. Oh, he's

38:14

totally a stage mom and it's like she I

38:16

wonder why she's stressed Yep,

38:20

or Beatrice. It's so funny I

38:22

look I mean I really like I've

38:25

graduated from all my time on newspapers dot-com

38:27

to going to archive org and just looking

38:29

at all of the all of

38:31

the sort of random archive stuff but One

38:34

of the things that I really enjoy speaking of

38:36

this and I hadn't even put two and two

38:38

together is there was a whole 80s and 90s

38:42

Genre of video, which was just the

38:44

convention recap. Hmm like of a Like

38:47

what? Yeah, so there's there's one

38:49

there's a there's an early fangoria

38:52

magazine convention recap Wow It's

38:54

like an hour-long video that I imagined what

38:56

happened was you went to the convention and

38:59

you gave them $20

39:01

and they took your name and address and

39:03

like in a couple weeks They edited together

39:05

incentive video that recap the convention huh and

39:07

you get sort of all the stars talking

39:09

about one thing you start being like Robert

39:11

England and like Whoever like talking

39:13

about stuff and then you have fans talking

39:15

about why they like the genre and then you

39:17

have like whatever and It's

39:20

just people who feel maybe awkward

39:22

in other parts of their life

39:24

But feel like very at ease

39:27

in this group and sort of

39:29

circumstance and environment And

39:32

there's something I like about the fact that

39:34

like there's so many shitty things

39:36

about the about quote modern time But

39:38

I like that we agree that if

39:41

you really like something We

39:43

all get together like once or twice a year

39:47

Sort of swing it get in a big room

39:49

with each other and like the

39:51

thing together. I think that's like a Extraordinarily

39:54

lovely thing it is until like fan

39:56

toxicity gets into it, but it's like

39:59

really nice with And people are just like, we'll

40:01

just like the thing together. Yeah. Yeah.

40:04

But you know, especially when it's

40:06

mostly adults, things

40:08

often go pretty well. Not to give adults

40:10

too much credit, but like I look

40:12

at the things teenagers are upset about and

40:14

a lot of it is very real. And

40:16

then some of it I'm just like, you're

40:19

not going to care about this. And if

40:21

you just have too much energy. Yeah.

40:24

Yeah. Like you need to be right around the

40:26

track. Like a why

40:28

we're out here. Yeah. And

40:30

then there's this wonderful moment where like

40:32

Jerry has to step in

40:35

because there's a crisis before everybody wins

40:37

best in breed, except for Beatrice who's

40:40

disqualified. And when Rhapsody wins best in

40:42

breed, we do get something I quote

40:44

a lot, which is that Sherry Ann,

40:46

who has been eating popcorn by herself,

40:48

waiting for another message from herself sees

40:52

that Christy and Rhapsody have won again.

40:54

And we see that on the TV

40:56

coverage, there he

40:58

goes fully. And the smooch, they go

41:00

for it. They're having a big old

41:03

smooch Hollywood kiss and Stefan is like,

41:06

hello, Rhapsody has two

41:08

mommies. It's the best. And

41:10

like, I think it's when the Shih

41:12

Tzu wins the best toy. Scott

41:16

is like, group shmoop, bring on the formal wear. I

41:19

just like it's Miss America. I

41:24

love it. And then I love that

41:26

like Stefan is like, what do you

41:28

need or whatever you suggest something is

41:30

got us like bath bomb immediately. And

41:32

like, that's a good couple. Yeah, they

41:34

know each other. Gotta get changed. Those

41:36

guys, I love their relationship. Every

41:39

time who is not Michael McKeown, we

41:41

were just talking about him. Michael something

41:43

Higgins. Yeah. Every time he

41:45

says something like slightly off, I know that

41:48

couple several total. Oh, we're like one says

41:50

something slightly off color. The other one's like,

41:52

you're awful. And they're like, but still loves

41:54

it. Like, is their best

41:56

audience? Is their most enthusiastic audience?

42:00

And that couple is Palm Springs

42:02

Modernism Week. Like you want to

42:04

meet them in real life, like

42:06

every February. You're like, oh, you

42:08

like your. It

42:11

is perfect. It's pitch perfect. And

42:14

it's so like it's also really sweet,

42:16

which is such a kind of like

42:18

fun contrast because it's also you get

42:20

the sense that like Scott is probably

42:22

kinkier. Maybe. Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. He's

42:24

wearing at one point like as a necklace,

42:27

something that looks like it's part of like a harness

42:29

or a ball gag. Right. Yeah, I

42:31

love it. And the way he sizes up at

42:33

Beckley Junior. Yeah. What are you for? I don't

42:35

know. What? Yeah.

42:39

And guess you can see like, even if it's not

42:41

explained, you can see the symbiosis happening there.

42:43

And I also love that this is a

42:45

movie with four couples, two are

42:47

straight, two are gay, and

42:50

we kind of have a functional and a

42:52

dysfunctional one of each. Right.

42:54

Yeah. What do you think of

42:56

Christy and Sherry Ann? I guess

42:58

they're not communicating. Yeah. You know, like

43:01

I'm really happy for them, but like there's like

43:03

the weird makeup thing. But right. And just at

43:05

the very end of the movie, the kind of

43:07

great advancement of the dog show is that they

43:09

are now able to be

43:11

open about their relationship. They're running a

43:13

magazine together. American Bitch

43:16

for the lesbian purebred dog owner.

43:18

We didn't win Mayflower, which was

43:20

surreal. Well,

43:23

yeah. And I feel like what worries me and I

43:26

get that it's that they're in a documentary, but

43:28

that they're like being all cute about being. I

43:30

think they're trying to make it like, yeah, now

43:32

we're in a relationship now. We weren't

43:34

before, but we are now. And what happened

43:37

to the husband? God knows. Oldie McGee from

43:39

the Conan O'Brien show. That guy played a

43:41

recurring character in Conan O'Brien show like pre-year

43:43

2000 called Oldie McGee. Wow. Well,

43:46

he must have been pretty old. Gosh. She

43:48

was also in old school. Wow. I remember

43:51

that. Yeah. I

43:53

imagine he. Yeah, I imagine he's no longer with

43:55

us. You know, you could

43:57

never. Maybe he had a heart attack when he saw them

43:59

kissing. on TV. I choose

44:02

to believe that. But yeah, so they're talking

44:04

at history's like, and it turns out she's

44:06

a great in the sack and Sherry-Ann's

44:09

like, likewise, I'm sure. It's,

44:12

I feel like that, I know that like her,

44:14

her turn in legally blonde is really what blew

44:16

it up. But like that feels to me like

44:18

her star turn when she says

44:21

that in particular. Yeah. And

44:23

so I feel like Sherry-Ann like,

44:26

they've kind of just brought their relationship out of

44:29

the closet. Like they, I think they have some

44:31

growing pains. They need some time to, but

44:33

you know, but that's okay. And

44:35

then also the, the yuppies

44:37

are like, well, we'll get to that

44:39

later, but they're in a much better place because

44:41

Beatrice was so negative. So negative.

44:44

And it's just so great that

44:46

she's not around anymore. She had a lot of problems.

44:50

I bet Beatrice is like thrilled

44:52

wherever she is. Oh yeah. Beatrice

44:54

does not have to deal with, with these

44:56

people any longer. But okay, so, but Sarah,

44:58

take us home. So we have, we're up

45:01

to everyone's one best in breed except Beatrice

45:03

who's so negative. Except Beatrice who's gone.

45:05

So we've got the four finalists in,

45:07

you know, hound toy, et cetera, et

45:09

cetera. And Cookie, who is normally

45:12

the handler for Winky, theatrically

45:14

twists her knee in some incredible

45:16

way that Catherine O'Hara then is

45:18

like limping, but it's like wiggly.

45:20

Like she's kind of doing it's

45:22

like way too crowded. She

45:25

can't go on. It's a crisis. And

45:27

then Jerry has to show Winky and

45:29

he's like, well, I have two left feet. I've

45:31

never done, I don't know how to do this.

45:33

And everybody's like, Christie, I think in a little

45:36

bit of a menacing way, but everybody else in

45:38

kind of a sweet way is like, we'll help you. So you can

45:40

totally do this. You've like, you got it. You've seen

45:42

me do it before. It is lovely watching

45:44

everyone rally, especially Scott. I

45:47

know. It's kind of like the Great

45:49

British Baking Show. Oh, it

45:51

is. Yeah. I

45:53

think like in large part because no one thinks he's going

45:55

to win. that

46:00

he does two left feet, she's like limping

46:02

around. But the dog, you know, hits

46:04

it out of the park. It's very competitive.

46:06

It's as Trevor Beckwith intones. It's

46:08

a hard decision for the judge,

46:10

right? And I think this is probably true. I think

46:13

that would be one of the hardest things because

46:15

you're not comparing, you are quite literally not comparing

46:18

apples to apples. You're comparing apples and pears,

46:20

right? If you're comparing dogs. And

46:22

Winky is the Grand Prix

46:25

winner. And Jerry

46:27

is dumbfounded. They are completely

46:29

awestruck by winning the Mayflower. Kristie

46:31

Cummings is not happy. She's

46:34

visibly disgusted with this outcome.

46:36

And he kind of

46:38

holds Winky aloft and Winky kind of

46:40

gives side eye to the camera and

46:43

they capture Winky. I can't remember pulling

46:45

his face, but it's just like, I

46:48

don't know how they captured that. It's perfection.

46:50

It's incredible. And then, you know,

46:52

and then we have our kind of Gufman style,

46:55

you know, six months later, six months later, a

46:57

year later, six months later, what everybody's

46:59

up to. And we've got the

47:02

Vanderhoofs doing their like MGM

47:05

movie palace calendar with

47:07

the Sheetsoos. And

47:09

it's, I guess it's what's the girl dog's name? It's

47:12

Tyrone and Agnes. Tyrone and Agnes. And

47:14

they're acting out the great love stories.

47:16

And my favorite thing of that is

47:18

that they've chosen as one of the

47:20

great love stories, McMillan and

47:22

wife. It's incredible. It's incredible. It's just, I would buy it.

47:24

It's like, they're just, oh, we're just doing this for fun.

47:27

Oh no, you have to sell it because I would buy

47:29

it. And again, it's, it's so

47:31

great because Tyrone and Aggie are just

47:33

like standing there, just not

47:35

doing anything, which you want if

47:38

you're shooting a calendar, but they're

47:40

just these cute little mops. They

47:42

have beautiful tiny hair. There's like,

47:44

so fire in the background. I think it's that

47:46

from Gone with the Wind. Yeah, they're doing the

47:48

burning of Atlanta. They're doing the burning of Atlanta. And

47:50

the dogs are just, you know, calmly as

47:53

they, as certainly they would be in

47:55

that situation. You've got, who else? There's

47:57

Bitch Magazine, the periodical for the list.

48:00

being purebred dog owner. Harlan is focused

48:02

on the ancient art. Harlan

48:04

Pepper goes to a kibbutz and

48:07

then decides to become a ventriloquist

48:09

or realizes his previously expressed

48:11

dream of becoming a ventriloquist. And

48:14

it seems from the performance he gives

48:16

that it's not going great. Relatively

48:19

small audience, the audience seems rather perplexed

48:21

and underwhelmed, but he nevertheless is, you

48:23

know, he does a rodeo routine. Again,

48:25

you can like kind of imagine a

48:27

lot of backstory here and I love think

48:29

because he's like performing, performing

48:32

at a VFW hall. He's got like

48:34

a lasso and he's playing, performing with

48:36

his dummy. I mean, you feel like

48:38

they'd love that, right? Right. And then you picture,

48:40

you kind of think that you'd be like, yeah,

48:42

I'm doing something nice for the community. And it's

48:44

like, haven't these veterans been

48:46

through enough? Well, it

48:49

reminded me a lot of the Eugene Levy

48:51

Coda in Waiting for Guffman where he's

48:53

performing. It's like a nursing home or

48:55

something and everybody's like, oh God. Right.

48:57

That is the thing that they do

48:59

in these movies, which is there's, there's

49:02

a theme there. It's the only thing that I'm

49:04

not going to say it feels mean because I

49:06

really don't think any of this ends up feeling

49:09

mean, but like there is

49:11

a acknowledgement that a lot of

49:13

the people that you know around

49:15

you who have no shame

49:19

or, or inhibition about how they express

49:21

themselves and just like have a desire

49:23

to do it no matter what can

49:25

sometimes be unaware of how they're taking

49:28

up your space and community space.

49:30

Oh yeah. And so like, I think that

49:32

that's like kind of what is always very

49:34

funny or, or like have

49:36

no awareness about like how funny like

49:38

in or out of context, like where

49:40

they've landed is. And I

49:42

always enjoy that. And it's like the scene

49:45

of them singing and recording the songs badly

49:47

reminds me of where Dirk Digler ends up

49:49

at the, in the lab at the time.

49:51

Oh, right. Cause it's the flex. Yeah.

49:53

And then of course the AV

49:56

guy recognizes cookie as everybody, cause everybody

49:58

recognizes cookie. Oh my God. I'm

50:00

growing right now looking at you girl. Bulge.

50:03

His name is Bulge. Bulge is

50:05

exactly perfect. Bulge. That's

50:08

like, that to me is one of the funniest dudes.

50:10

It's like, that guy's name is

50:12

Bulge. It is pretty funny. And he, and the

50:14

fact that they've been like, they were on local

50:16

television thrice three times. She's

50:19

proud to point out. So at every

50:21

turn, she's proud of him.

50:23

So she's like acknowledging all these, all these

50:26

dudes from her, her life. And

50:28

also I don't, I think she unironically

50:30

adores Jerry. That's my pick.

50:32

Oh yeah. Yeah. I

50:35

love the part where they're at the cocktail party and again,

50:37

she runs into someone who she met in like Louisville in

50:39

1982 or something. And

50:42

he like goes on his way and she's like, I know

50:45

where I am, Jerry. That was fun. Who's

50:48

my future? Which sounds kind of like he's talking

50:50

to a dog. Who's a good boy? Who's

50:52

my future? Yeah. Right.

50:55

Jerry is kind of the terrier group. Oh

50:59

for sure. And I love when she's showing

51:01

off Winky and she's like, and this

51:03

group is all about attitude. And

51:06

could he have a better attitude? A

51:08

more happy to know attitude. He's just,

51:11

and Winky is a little doll baby.

51:13

I love him. Yeah. I

51:15

think that's the category of dog that feels

51:17

most cat like. Oh yeah. To me that

51:20

that size range. So it's relatable. They're

51:22

the size of a chunky cat. A terrier

51:24

is like a nice fat cat. Then

51:26

we revisit, we go back to

51:29

the swans to wrap up. Yeah.

51:32

We end with the swans as we began, which

51:34

I love. And things are looking up for the

51:36

swans. Things have been going well. They're wearing colors.

51:38

Because they're wearing colors. They've gone

51:41

through what's new. They're shopping from

51:43

the Bowdoin catalog now. They've adopted

51:45

a pug who we don't

51:47

see until, what is the sequence

51:49

of events she's describing? It's the

51:51

last shot we see the pug

51:53

finally. And their new dog

51:55

Kipper doesn't mind watching them have sex. In

51:58

fact, he even likes it. And

52:00

we pan down to the

52:02

therapist's leg and Kipper is

52:04

going to town on the

52:06

therapist's leg and that's the

52:08

end. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah.

52:12

So, okay. So, Best in Show, this

52:14

little movie came out in... 2000,

52:18

you know, in there. Millennial. It's

52:21

a millennial like us. And I really

52:23

think that it's hard to overestimate how

52:25

much it affected comedy and media

52:27

and sort of what kind of

52:29

humor we saw from then till

52:31

now really. But do you agree with

52:33

that? I certainly do. I

52:35

mean, I think it was hugely

52:39

influential for also just kind of

52:41

people's sense of humor generally. It's like not

52:43

necessarily people who work in media or make movies,

52:45

but it just kind of that like

52:47

funny verite thing, the rhinest

52:50

of it and the kind of detachedness

52:53

of it, it was a

52:55

vibe that felt kind of new at the time.

52:57

And now it's just... You know what I mean?

52:59

So, I mean, yeah, I think like, you know,

53:01

like the obvious predecessor to this is Spinal Tap.

53:04

This is Spinal Tap. Absolutely. But

53:07

like the thing about this is Spinal Tap is you

53:09

need to kind of also understand British Metal or

53:11

the style of humor. Right. And

53:14

so you need to not just like the

53:16

package, but you need to kind of like one

53:18

of the things about the package. You need to

53:20

kind of be anchored in it somehow. And with

53:22

Best in Show, you can go in cold. Totally

53:25

that and Waiting for a Government in Mighty

53:27

Wind. I cared a little bit less about

53:30

the Movie Awards one. For your consideration. Yeah,

53:32

I do think that like with those three

53:35

or four Christopher Guss movies from the

53:37

late 90s into the early 2000s, it

53:40

invites you to enjoy the format in a

53:42

way where it's not alienating if like the subject

53:44

matter is alien to you. Right.

53:47

And then it also, I would argue it's like a

53:49

predecessor to The Office. Sure. Oh

53:51

my God. Yeah. And

53:54

like live filmed cringe, which as somebody who

53:56

was a teen in the 90s, I can

53:58

tell you it was not. Cringes

54:00

live on tape. That's the vibe. Live

54:02

on tape was not a thing and now it's

54:04

and it has been a thing ever since. Yeah.

54:07

So that's best in show. So that's

54:09

best in show. Which I think

54:11

is I would dare to call it a

54:13

masterpiece of a kind. For sure. I would

54:15

definitely call it a masterpiece and I think

54:18

that like you know the my understanding historically

54:20

is that the masterpiece is that you

54:22

train as an artist, you apprentice and

54:24

then when you do a work

54:27

that kind of shows your skills and

54:29

shows that you have achieved mastery that is your

54:31

masterpiece and then you take it around and show it

54:33

to people and they're like oh I see you are

54:36

a master that is your piece. This

54:38

may be apocryphal but one thing that I

54:40

was told in grad school it may may not

54:42

be real is that the teapot

54:45

was sort of a potter's masterpiece because

54:47

it I believe that right because if

54:49

you can make a teapot you've shown

54:51

that you can do all the

54:53

elements you can attach a handle you can

54:55

make a lid that fits a spout that

54:57

pours and a foot that rests or

55:00

and like the body that holds tea so

55:02

there's sort of you're sort of you've proved

55:04

that you can do all the things in

55:06

this one object and I kind

55:08

of feel like this movie almost

55:10

does that. Totally. Like there's pathos,

55:13

there's humor, there's cuteness,

55:15

there's snark, there's

55:18

you know it's not it's I would say maybe aesthetically like

55:20

that you don't get I don't get as much dog

55:22

content as I would have liked but

55:25

apart from that you know you can't have it all. Right

55:28

but it's not about the dogs but it is about

55:30

the dogs but it's not about the dogs. Right it's

55:32

the people in their competitive categories. People

55:34

in show. People in show. Yuppies,

55:39

fishing hole guys. Yeah

55:41

Tribeca gays and wealthy lesbians Tribeca gays

55:43

who go to the butcher shop and

55:45

tease the butcher. Yeah that's

55:47

it's all the types. And I also something

55:51

I didn't notice consciously until I was watching

55:53

I guess before we got on is that

55:55

scene that we sang at the beginning where

55:57

the Vanderhoefs are calling home to sing. to

56:00

Rone his favorite song is

56:02

that Michael McKeon is singing

56:04

the song and Scott

56:07

next to him like when he finishes singing

56:09

just like makes this noise that's

56:11

like kind of a laugh and kind of just

56:13

the sound of like, ah, I'm

56:15

so happy. We're all you know, the

56:17

way it's like an expression of kind of the way you

56:20

feel when you're a little bit overwhelmed by the abundance

56:23

around you, I feel like. And yeah,

56:25

I feel like there's just like all

56:27

the texture and flavor of human experience

56:29

is in here, you know, not tragedy,

56:31

but you know, the sunnier side of

56:33

pathos. So you're absolutely the sunnier side

56:35

of pathos is such a beautiful turn

56:37

of phrase. And I think like, thank

56:39

you. I'm not saying anything I haven't

56:42

already said in this, but like, this

56:44

is just a it's a kind move.

56:46

It is. It's not only a masterpiece

56:48

and sort of what he does, it's

56:50

a masterpiece and like how to treat

56:52

your subjects with love in a way

56:54

where you're not compromising bite

56:56

or insight or saying something.

56:58

I kind of invite the audience to root for

57:00

a deeply imperfect character because we all

57:03

are right. And it's like you really

57:05

I found myself really like rooting

57:07

for Jerry so hard, even though I

57:09

know the movie so many times

57:11

I'm like, yeah, like winky in the cup, whatever. It's

57:14

but every time I watch that sequence, it

57:17

just it's so lovely the way like how

57:19

proud it's just it's great. Yeah,

57:21

the other thing that works really well,

57:23

and I think maybe doesn't work in

57:25

movies now because we don't joke about

57:27

suicide, rightfully understandably. But like my two

57:30

favorite jokes from this movie are one

57:33

where it's unconditional

57:35

love. Yeah, it's unconditional love. It worked for

57:37

my family until my mom committed suicide in

57:39

81. And she

57:41

just in it. And it's so relatable

57:44

because I think we three and people who

57:46

listen to the show have been the people

57:48

who just say something in a conversation and

57:50

then realize it was too dark for the

57:53

conversation. Everybody's like yikes. Yeah. And she doesn't

57:55

care. Like she's not doing it to be

57:57

an edgelord. She just doesn't. It

57:59

doesn't register. I don't think it accrues to

58:01

her because she just no no relaying it

58:03

as though she's like it worked until 1981

58:05

and then the Conversation

58:08

what is her ex-boyfriend the guy from

58:10

10 things I hate about you is

58:12

he was he a hostage negotiator? Like

58:14

what is playing? He's a

58:17

jumper negotiator. Yeah. Yeah, he's

58:19

a jumper negotiator He says

58:21

you think they jump like rocks,

58:23

but they don't they ricochet off

58:26

the guard Such they bounce on

58:28

it's so dark. It's such a

58:30

loaded statement Because

58:32

like you realize you actually do kind of

58:34

think that yeah I mean

58:37

if you've given it some thought which I think most

58:39

people are like uh, let it's yeah And then he

58:41

just scrap he does kind of a blow-by-blow So

58:44

situation with winky with his kid Yeah,

58:49

and what I love too like this movie So

58:52

much of it Naturally is in the editing

58:54

and like we don't know how they got

58:56

the kid and winky down we just cut

58:58

away It doesn't matter. They figured it out.

59:00

That's not our business onto the next thing,

59:03

right? Cuz winky exists

59:07

Survived we don't know what Like

59:10

winky's winky exists So,

59:13

okay I feel like

59:15

my kind of closing question about besting show

59:18

is that like one of the Accidental themes

59:20

of this conversation has been that the world

59:22

drowning in media all the time and it's

59:24

exhausting and that this was such a

59:26

special Movie in the moment it came out because it

59:28

felt you know, we'd seen waiting for guffman We've seen

59:30

this as final top so it wasn't a brand new

59:32

flavor but it was a new flavor

59:34

and it was something that I feel like we

59:37

were so excited to to have and

59:39

to experience and Just

59:41

in terms of like the state of media the

59:43

state of comedy now like Do

59:46

we still need something like a best in

59:48

show to remind us? I guess that things

59:51

are funniest when we see the humanity and

59:53

the people that were laughing at God I

59:55

think more than ever. Yeah, I

59:58

mean it's pretty grim out there And

1:00:00

I think it would be, I think more humanity, like

1:00:03

as we live longer and longer and longer with

1:00:05

social media and the internet and more

1:00:08

of that kind of media, if it has an audience

1:00:10

today, I hope it does. I think it does. But

1:00:12

I think there's the internet has the paradox that it

1:00:15

allows us all to connect. Like we all know each

1:00:17

other because of the internet, right? Beautiful

1:00:19

thing. But it also allows us to flatten people

1:00:22

that we just dismiss people that we disagree with or

1:00:25

say like, Oh, well, you must be a monster. And

1:00:28

that's not great. And there's so

1:00:30

much of that. And I just I do think

1:00:32

it would be really lovely to have something another,

1:00:35

you know, another iteration of something like

1:00:37

this. Yeah, maybe with cats. Well,

1:00:39

and the thing is that the difficult balance is loving

1:00:41

them too much because like that's where like I think

1:00:43

the office I was like, I started to like, I

1:00:45

don't care about Pam and Jim's long term plans. And

1:00:48

it's like when you start to like

1:00:51

form like long attachments, it becomes like

1:00:53

a little difficult. But I do

1:00:55

like I mean, I think that this is we've

1:00:58

seen a lot of this get replicated or

1:01:00

honored in the past 20 years. I think

1:01:02

Schitt's Creek is this like I think like

1:01:05

Abbot Elementary is this. That's

1:01:07

true. Abbot Elementary is a

1:01:09

gorgeous, big hearted documentary style

1:01:11

show in the spirit of

1:01:14

the office being

1:01:16

in the spirit of this. I

1:01:18

think the things that do work, it's like

1:01:20

you can be clever all you want. But

1:01:22

if there is not heart, it is not

1:01:24

going to last more than a little

1:01:26

while. And I think like that is a thing

1:01:28

that I recognize in all of us in this

1:01:30

call and people who come on the show and

1:01:32

people like listen to the shows is like intellectual

1:01:35

interest and interest in like how humans

1:01:37

are generally, but wanting space to do

1:01:39

it in a way where it doesn't

1:01:41

always have to be so absolute all

1:01:43

the time. And actually that that ambiguous

1:01:45

space is what is the most beautiful.

1:01:48

What's your take Sarah? You posted the great question. I

1:01:51

agree. You got to have heart. Yeah, heart's great. I don't

1:01:53

really need his heart. It's all about attitude and could there

1:01:55

be a happier

1:02:00

than no yeah attitude well

1:02:03

there's a lot of dog dads in this

1:02:05

movie no fathers is

1:02:07

there a single father no no

1:02:09

human children lovely except for the

1:02:11

head popping off like a great guy oh

1:02:13

yeah oh yeah you're right that's he's

1:02:15

the only yeah we know that Larry

1:02:17

Miller is that whatever we know that

1:02:19

Larry Miller is a father yeah who

1:02:21

in your view is the daddy Sarah

1:02:24

Archer of best in show I I

1:02:29

mean it's gotta be Christy Cummings right Jane

1:02:32

Lynch I mean it's a tough call because

1:02:36

there's a lot of candidates but I think as

1:02:39

she says you know Sherriann provides

1:02:41

the unconditional love and she's

1:02:43

the she's the father figure

1:02:45

and I think that that is imperfect

1:02:48

and very well sort

1:02:51

of formulated in the way that the two

1:02:53

of them play that those roles yeah yeah

1:02:55

I love that I think that that's a

1:02:57

perfect choice mine is going to be I'm

1:02:59

gonna zoom out a little bit and I

1:03:01

just this is just an excuse to talk

1:03:03

about Ed Bigley juniors autobiography let him I

1:03:05

heard him interviewed on WTF ten years ago

1:03:07

in every story he told

1:03:10

I was like what like

1:03:12

he grew up in LA and

1:03:14

knew every cool person in the 70s

1:03:16

like was like close friends with Harry

1:03:18

Dean Stanton had a stint

1:03:20

doing heroin he just like had

1:03:23

a crazy like and then you

1:03:25

look at his face you're like that guy

1:03:27

that guy yeah like you would not I

1:03:29

mean you'd think that he's from like Norland

1:03:33

it's truly it's

1:03:35

not like you're not gonna read it

1:03:37

and be changed in any way and

1:03:39

it's like not unlike other sort of

1:03:41

another great blurb memoirs but

1:03:44

it's it's clearly written with love and

1:03:46

there's a lot of like great stories

1:03:48

about like LA Hollywood in the 70s

1:03:50

and 80s oh that sounds great and

1:03:52

he's just went viral on tiktok the

1:03:55

other day he's been struggling with Parkinson's

1:03:57

but like he is notoriously a huge

1:03:59

environment He was

1:04:01

the president of the Academy for years, or the governor

1:04:03

of the Academy for years. He for years would take

1:04:06

the bus to the ceremony on the day

1:04:08

out. And there's a great video his daughter

1:04:10

made of him, of them going on the

1:04:12

bus together to the Academy. So

1:04:15

I just, I've always, anyone

1:04:17

who has ever in Fernwood tonight, just

1:04:20

like I have massive affection for before

1:04:22

I even knew them, because Roseanne would

1:04:24

end up casting everyone from Fernwood tonight.

1:04:26

So all these people I have great

1:04:29

love for and have since my childhood.

1:04:31

In that extent to Fred Willard, to

1:04:33

Martin Mall, to Ed Begley Jr. But

1:04:36

I just love Ed Begley Jr. and I think

1:04:38

he's a real gem. Oh, he's a treasure. He's

1:04:40

a treasure. Sarah, it's daddy time.

1:04:43

Well, it is all the dogs, of

1:04:45

course. Some of these

1:04:47

I don't know if this is a multiple dog's

1:04:49

name or just one dog's

1:04:51

name. I'm going to do my best.

1:04:53

So playing Beatrice the Weimaraner, we have

1:04:55

Aerocats, Echo Bar, Take Me Dancing. Playing

1:04:59

Winky, we have Urchin's Brillo. Playing

1:05:02

Hubert the Bloodhound. We have Quiet Creek,

1:05:04

Stand By Me. Urchin's Brillo.

1:05:09

Playing Agnes and Tyrone, we

1:05:11

have Rapture's Classic and Cimarin's

1:05:13

Red Hot Kisses. And

1:05:17

playing Rhapsody in White, we have,

1:05:19

I believe, two different dogs, Brocade

1:05:21

Exclamation and Desi Does

1:05:23

It With Pizzazz. And

1:05:25

that is spelled Z-E-Z-I space,

1:05:29

D-U-Z space, it

1:05:32

space with space, P-I-Z-A-Z.

1:05:35

Desi Does It With Pizzazz. Wow.

1:05:39

I'm blown away by this knowledge.

1:05:41

That's fantastic. I love words. Boy,

1:05:45

dog people apparently do too. I mean,

1:05:47

it's fascinating. And all these dogs did

1:05:49

an amazing job and all the background

1:05:51

dogs and all the dogs yesterday,

1:05:53

today and tomorrow. It is

1:05:56

also, it makes you think of it. You know who really

1:05:58

knows where to get a supportive bra? is

1:06:01

a dog show handler. Yes. That's

1:06:04

who I need to be asking. Architectonic,

1:06:07

you might say. Yeah. Oh,

1:06:10

I'm an expert on this. Yeah. If

1:06:12

you're a minimalist with big boobs, like you become

1:06:14

like a real expert on like

1:06:16

t-shirts and all of your

1:06:18

supportive foundation garments, as Jim Gunn would

1:06:21

say. We'll discuss. Yeah. And

1:06:24

my daddy is also Sarah Archer, who

1:06:26

has sex ahead for knowing. And

1:06:28

you know all about cats and kitchens.

1:06:31

And bras. And Santa

1:06:33

Claus and tradwives and so many

1:06:35

wonderful, terrible things. And I'm so happy you

1:06:37

came back. Thanks so much, Sarah. Oh, it

1:06:39

is such a pleasure. This was so much

1:06:41

fun. And I hope everybody out

1:06:43

there can talk and not

1:06:46

talk for hours. And

1:06:49

you are the best in show. Ah! Oh

1:06:52

my God, that's so nice. Group Shmoop. Bring on the

1:06:54

formal wear. Group Shmoop! Let's do

1:06:56

it. Are you? That's

1:06:58

it. This

1:07:08

week's episode of You Are Good. Thank

1:07:11

you so much for joining us. Thanks

1:07:13

to Sarah Archer for being here with

1:07:15

us. Thanks to Miranda Zichler, our producer

1:07:17

and editor, for making the show happen.

1:07:19

Thanks to our founding and

1:07:22

consulting producer, Carolyn Kendrick. Thank you,

1:07:25

you of course, for being here. Thank

1:07:27

you to Fresh Lesh for providing the beats to

1:07:29

make our episodes sense this week. Thanks

1:07:32

for finding us and following us on social media at You

1:07:34

Are Good or You Are Good Pod. Thanks

1:07:36

to Alyssa Anafrio, who recently had a birthday, and

1:07:39

who we adore, who edits videos to promote

1:07:41

each of these. You'll see those coming back

1:07:43

soon. I had a little break

1:07:46

in video production that's coming back soon. Look

1:07:48

out for those on the socials. Thanks

1:07:51

to everyone who supports us on Patreon and Apple

1:07:53

Podcast subscriptions. You make

1:07:55

the thing possible. We all appreciate you because

1:07:58

this wouldn't be happening if you... supporting

1:08:00

in the way that you are. Thank you. I

1:08:03

think that might be it and until

1:08:06

next week, please don't

1:08:08

forget that you, my

1:08:10

friends, are good.