0:00

You made it weird, you made

0:02

it weird, you made it weird,

0:05

oh yeah You made

0:07

it weird, you made it weird, yes

0:09

you did it You made

0:11

it weird, you made it weird

0:13

with Pete Holmes What's

0:16

happening weirdos? What's happening? Holy

0:18

moly. Guacamole. Guacamole.

0:21

We got a good one today. I think this is one

0:23

of our best. I agree. If this

0:26

is the truest to form as far

0:28

as the like... I love doing this with you

0:30

because you... I feel the same way

0:32

about the Wednesday episodes. Like if we

0:34

get there, we know. And sometimes

0:36

you get 70% of the way there and you're

0:38

happy. But when you get 100, you're just like, oh

0:42

man, there's no fake in it.

0:44

Yeah. It's unbelievable.

0:46

I'm so glad everybody's here. Yeah.

0:51

If this is your first Friday episode, this

0:54

is the bonus. We made it weird. Val

0:57

and I catch up and

0:59

this is just a classic. I'm so glad. I'm

1:01

so glad we got it. Not

1:05

much to promote up top. We just added

1:08

Madison, Wisconsin to Pete holmes.com coming back to

1:10

Madison. I hope you can come. We love

1:12

Madison. Me too. And

1:14

we got Texas and Pittsburgh and

1:17

there's something else. Detroit,

1:21

I don't know. No. I

1:25

was gonna say it doesn't matter. It

1:28

does matter. It does matter.

1:30

It's Houston, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh and

1:32

Milwaukee. And then Largo,

1:34

go to largo-la.com if

1:36

you're gonna be in the LA area. The

1:38

Largo shows are the highlight of my month and

1:41

we're doing them every three weeks now. So sometimes

1:43

twice a month, July 17th, August 16th and

1:46

September 5th and 26th. Come

1:48

to those always amazing guests

1:50

and always, always, always so fun.

1:53

largo-la.com for those and Pete holmes.com

1:56

for the tour dates. Means

1:58

a lot when weirdos come out. Um,

2:01

all right, Katie roll. We

2:03

don't do ads for things we don't actually love.

2:05

I should say in that,

2:07

in that mindset, if you

2:10

like the show, try one of the sponsors, it's the best

2:13

and only real direct way to support the show other

2:15

than listening. So if you want to give us a

2:17

little thank you, try a sponsor. Don't,

2:19

don't send us cash. Send these guys cash,

2:22

get a product helps us out. All right,

2:24

Katie roll that beautiful bean footage. Recently, my

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and was developed with the highest.

12:00

It's one of those things that probably quoted a

12:02

thousand times on the pod, but it's like there's

12:04

something about the alone

12:07

in your car that like welcomes

12:09

these sort of strange wicked

12:12

rituals. Like I'm gonna listen to this weird,

12:14

I don't know where Howard Stern is from, but

12:17

I'm gonna listen to this Attitude New York Man.

12:19

I do that. And I'm gonna, whoo, whoo, whoo,

12:21

he's talking to a stripper. Like you love

12:23

it. Yeah, you love it. And you know, I

12:25

think I've said this before, people tell me that

12:28

they sometimes play this podcast in their coffee shop

12:30

or maybe an Uber driver and they don't

12:32

turn it down when the passenger gets in.

12:35

And I'm like, look, respect, but you never

12:37

know. I checked out my new

12:39

favorite thing, the Quinn app. Oh,

12:42

the Audio Sex? On a drive because I

12:44

was getting- Audio Sex? I call it audio

12:46

eroticism. Wait, you listen to it to stay

12:49

awake? Yes. Brill. I

12:51

know, I was getting tired on a drive. I

12:53

once was nodding off at the wheel and I

12:56

put on the sound of pornography to get me

12:58

awake. I mean, that's essentially what I did. I

13:00

couldn't watch it. I know, that's why I'm emboldened

13:02

to share this. I've been embarrassed by that. But

13:04

I was literally in danger. And I was like,

13:07

I think if I really get my heart going,

13:09

wasn't watching it, just the

13:11

sound of smacking. I mean,

13:13

there is that, like that's one of

13:15

the options. You can have smacking? Oh

13:18

yeah. Like, and then actually that's the-

13:20

Wait, I feel like I am gonna

13:23

like this app. You are, I'm telling

13:25

you. Everybody will, and they do it

13:27

so well that there is literally something

13:29

for everyone. So actually the default is-

13:31

This should be a sponsor, Quinn slash.

13:33

I know. Rock hard bones. I could

13:35

do such a good ad for them.

13:37

So- Will you reach out? I'm

13:39

just kidding. Okay, I'm sorry. I guilt you. We've

13:42

gone from me not knowing exactly what it is

13:44

to me already mad at you that you didn't

13:46

reach out to a sponsor. But

13:50

the, I mean,

13:52

it's fully, like they're not doing it. It's

13:55

not two people actually doing it. It

13:58

is a person. And-

14:00

speaking. Yeah, but

14:02

they're good at it. It's not just like class. How do you know

14:05

it's not real? Because you never

14:07

hear the other person. You are the

14:09

other person. That's what's great

14:11

about it. Oh, interesting. It's like, but you do

14:13

hear the like- This is an app. I feel

14:16

like, have we set this up? No. This is

14:18

an app that you listen to. It's audio eroticism.

14:20

Yes. And it's called Quinn. And it's called- Which

14:22

by the way, as I've settled in for a

14:25

good old fashioned wink, I've never

14:28

been able to remember that it's called Quinn.

14:31

I've never, and then I

14:33

thought, look,

14:35

it's one of the crown jewels of my

14:37

life that I can tell you that I

14:39

am a person who masturbates. Like I'm not

14:41

ashamed of it. And so much so that

14:44

I would ask you, hey, what's the name

14:46

of that audio erotica app without any, but

14:48

the problem is, is like, you know, I

14:50

look at- You're in the moment. I'm hungry,

14:52

and there's a sandwich and I'm just going

14:54

to eat any sandwich. Yeah. No, I think

14:56

it's, I, to me,

14:59

it has solved, it

15:01

wasn't a problem, but like, you know, I,

15:04

like you would go in and out of

15:06

like porn phases and

15:08

I just never- Pee-pees. Loved

15:10

it when I was in one. I

15:13

feel like- No shade or shame. I've

15:15

told you that I got, I

15:17

think I've mentioned this a million times. I was at the

15:19

comedy seller and a young woman like kind of yelled

15:21

at me. She was a little drunk for being like

15:24

sex shame-y about porn and about

15:26

stripper sex workers. And

15:29

like was like this, like

15:31

that's over, like stop it. And I was

15:33

like, what is happening? Yeah, no, no, no.

15:35

I'm talking about my own personal experience. No,

15:37

no, no. Not that I

15:40

don't think, you know, whatever. I

15:42

actually firmly disagree with that person

15:44

and think that a good percentage

15:46

of pornography is like a

15:49

bad situation. Yeah. I

15:51

think what I didn't like about it most of

15:53

the time was that- Maybe not that I don't

15:55

know, but I'm just gonna feel it. It was

15:57

taking me, like TV sort of makes you dissociate.

16:00

it was making me dissociate at a

16:03

very key time when I wanna be

16:05

actually very much in my body and

16:07

like with my body and. It's

16:09

funny for all the headlines of

16:11

men, headlands, men being visual, I

16:13

actually think what's going on is

16:16

men are disembodied, more disembodied and

16:18

more in their head. So it's

16:20

not really visual stimuli, it's an

16:22

ignorance of the other

16:24

stimuli. You said a mouthful there

16:26

sister. I think that is a

16:28

really good point. I

16:31

got a womb, ha ha ha. We're

16:34

over there. Ha ha ha. It's good

16:36

to me. Ha ha ha ha ha

16:38

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

16:40

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

16:43

We did amazing that last week. We did it last week,

16:45

I think. I find it very funny. The

16:47

ha ha ha's are very funny to me. They're

16:50

like sort of, it's a little sweaty, it's

16:52

a little, it's not good and I like

16:54

that the notes don't change. Wait, have we

16:57

talked about our, I mean

16:59

it should have been she. We've talked

17:01

about it. We've talked about it, okay. All right, well then you

17:03

guys just have to remember because we're not gonna get into

17:05

it now. Well,

17:07

I feel like now we should say it. There's a

17:09

song where Ray Charles goes like, I was walking down,

17:12

it's really like this, I was walking, it's one of

17:14

those talk singing songs. I was walking

17:16

down the street just the other day. He's

17:18

really talking like this, like he's putting on

17:20

a funny voice. He's like, and I looked

17:22

in the window and I saw my baby.

17:25

She was eating an ice cream sundae with

17:27

my buddy old Jim and

17:30

that's when I thought, man, I should have

17:32

been him. It should have been me eating

17:35

that ice cream and cake. It should have

17:37

been me. Like

17:39

it's so, we've talked about this before, but it is the

17:42

most 1950s song of all time. It's

17:46

just a broke guy, which I feel

17:48

like everyone was broke. Yeah. Looking

17:50

at ice cream and just going like

17:52

that. This is before

17:54

we all had ice cream just shooting

17:57

up our ass for five cents. You

17:59

know what I mean? You

32:01

didn't see the end of the world coming. You built

32:03

a fence in the ocean and it's filled with 9,000

32:06

pieces of salmon shit and

32:08

a couple fish that have like

32:10

nine eyeballs. Like we're so fucking

32:12

stupid. It's so bizarre.

32:15

Yeah, it's less

32:17

fun and interesting to talk about. No, no, no,

32:19

we'll move on. I will recommend you are when

32:21

you eat on Netflix. Now that I'm vegan again,

32:23

I'm emboldened to watch all the vegan documentaries and

32:25

I'm really enjoying it, but it is. We're

32:30

back to the challenge of veganism for me

32:32

is really feeling like I'm better than people

32:34

and wanting to tell everyone to stop eating

32:36

chicken. It's gross. Yeah, and you

32:39

deliberately started being vegan with the intention

32:41

that you wouldn't. I know. No,

32:43

no, no, that's why I'm saying this not to surrender

32:45

and say that's just how it is. I'm

32:48

letting you know that like it sucks. Like I

32:50

hate it. I hate that like you'll

32:52

be cooking chicken now and there'll be a part of me that's

32:54

like, you know, that a

32:56

lot of chicken has E. coli. But you

32:59

do like it because you're watching the documentary.

33:01

No, I like it because it encourages and

33:03

bolsters my decision. Sure.

33:07

It's tricky like any issue,

33:09

not just veganism. I'm sure

33:11

my T-shirt was made, I always

33:13

go to child labor. But if

33:15

you become woke, I

33:17

mean that in the good way, to any issue,

33:19

one of the costs of

33:21

that, this is why a lot of people just kind of

33:24

go around whistling in the dark. I

33:26

understand, but I feel like if you were,

33:28

you set the intention of like, I'm gonna

33:30

just be vegan again, it's just for me.

33:32

I'm gonna try to not get judgmental about

33:35

it. Then the way to

33:37

do that would be not to like bolster

33:39

your decision because the way

33:41

you're bolstering it is by being

33:43

like, this is the right choice.

33:46

That's true, but I actually think now

33:48

the way that information is spreading and

33:50

stuff, I think Leela is gonna be

33:52

growing up in a way more. Something's

33:56

gotta give is what I'm saying. For sure. Like

33:59

when it comes to like. When

36:00

I get dressed, if

36:02

you and Leela are in the room,

36:05

you both make such a

36:07

big deal about seeing my

36:09

boobs. And it is obviously for-

36:12

Just the real headliners in the house. It's

36:14

for very different reasons, but

36:18

I feel like

36:20

there's no gap between- No,

36:22

we've made this point before. Everyone is fed

36:24

by breasts. Yeah. Well, they're not.

36:27

That's absolutely true. Leela wasn't for very

36:30

long. No, that's absolutely true. But everybody,

36:32

I can't say in everybody's statement. It's

36:34

uniquely your mother, a

36:37

mother part of the body. Yeah, everybody needs

36:39

a bosom for a pillow. We're

36:42

not gonna go into it, but Nirvana the

36:44

Band that show has a very funny bit

36:46

about that, that we're not gonna talk about

36:49

it. I know. Cause it's, you know, it's

36:51

edgy. And Matt Johnson is my new crush,

36:53

which is embarrassing because he's you. No,

36:56

I know more embarrassing is I'm

36:58

going through a Matt Johnson from

37:01

Nirvana the Band, who did this podcast. If

37:03

you don't know who we're talking about, go listen to that episode

37:06

and watch Nirvana the Band, the show. It's

37:10

not embarrassing if they're, you know, like I

37:12

have a, when there's a character

37:14

like you in things, I love them.

37:17

And it's natural that you would love

37:20

Matt Johnson for reminding you of me,

37:22

which I love. What's weird is that

37:24

I'm obsessed with him. Yeah, sure. I

37:26

guess that is weird. I also have

37:29

this, like, I see a guy, and

37:33

when he did the podcast, we got real deep. We

37:36

talked about Beowulf and like the meaning of life and

37:38

all this stuff. And then when you watch his work,

37:40

it's so incredibly silly. I'm like, oh, we're like very

37:42

similar in that way as well. So

37:44

when I watch his work and he's being really silly,

37:48

it's like a blood transfusion. It's like

37:50

reminding me to be silly and to

37:52

like go after it and find joy

37:55

and play. Yeah, no, it actually is

37:57

really, because I don't know if I

37:59

have. and

42:00

the strategizing and the coping, this

42:02

is just going in looking under the

42:04

pot lid and feeling it

42:06

and just kind of honoring all of these

42:09

feelings. And, you know, buyer

42:13

beware, it's not easy. And

42:17

it's been incredibly, not,

42:19

I won't say incredibly, but it's been disruptive to

42:22

my life and in a

42:24

way that I'm Dracula dead and loving

42:26

it, but not always. Let me put it this

42:28

way. I've been really up and down and

42:31

that's very normal for me. I'm

42:33

a mood swingy motherfucker, but what's

42:35

happened, it's been heightened. Usually I'll

42:37

go up and down four

42:39

times in a day. Like I'll have a real

42:42

manner and then I'll have kind of low, manic

42:44

low, manic low. And that's the day. Now,

42:46

and that brother, you got yourself a soup. That's

42:49

a Tuesday. Now, I swear

42:52

on some of the days it's been

42:54

like eight times. So like double the ups

42:57

and downs. Yeah. And like

42:59

a lot of, and my

43:01

therapist Claudia who I'm obsessed with and

43:04

I'm always telling you that I

43:06

live, you vow with a trauma

43:08

therapist is incredibly useful. But

43:11

like she's been validating for

43:13

me and I really need that. Like,

43:15

oh, you're having trauma responses. Like

43:18

tunnel vision, tight,

43:21

like elevated heart, like catastrophizing

43:24

black and white, all

43:27

or nothing. Oftentimes

43:29

it's going around money. Like

43:31

it's so easy for my anxiety to add

43:33

up what we owe in a month and

43:36

go, where are you gonna get that?

43:38

Where are you gonna get that? And like I have

43:40

to, something I've been saying is like, you don't need

43:42

it all right now. You do little

43:44

things here and there and it adds up. But

43:47

like, God, I'm getting

43:49

wrecked. And like

43:51

having, like I was in

43:53

this office chasing a fly. I

43:56

print out passport photos for myself. And

43:58

there was a fly in here. and

44:00

I couldn't get it. And I'm joking now, because

44:02

I feel regulated and good now, but I was

44:05

chasing this fly and I couldn't get it. And

44:07

I was like deeply

44:10

sad and angry, both. So

44:14

I'm having these responses over flies that

44:17

aren't about the fly at all.

44:20

I'm just getting

44:23

wrecked. It's like the Breaking Bad episode. It

44:26

made me think of that and I was like, why wasn't that

44:28

episode better? Oh, I loved

44:30

that episode. It's okay. I

44:32

always just go like, oh, they didn't have the budget for

44:34

a real episode. Like I just. Because

44:37

it was a bottle episode. Yeah, bottle episodes always

44:40

feel like, and we can save the money for

44:42

this cool episode by having one where they're stuck

44:44

in the car. That's a

44:47

byproduct of being in TV. But

44:50

I also think at that point, it was the

44:52

most popular show on TV, probably not the

44:54

problem. Anyway. I

44:57

do wanna talk more about this. Should we

44:59

go to the mid-rolls? Who's the teaser, I

45:01

thought? Well, the teaser is, I've

45:05

been regulating and

45:08

needing to regulate more. And

45:11

what I read this morning and what we'll

45:13

start the second half of the episode with

45:15

is what I read this morning and it

45:17

blew my D off and I'm really excited

45:19

to share it. So

45:22

come back. That's it. We'll talk

45:24

to you and we'll talk to you in a minute. This

45:28

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regularly knows there was like a good Year,

47:57

maybe where I was really?

47:59

I really couldn't stop talking about A Course in Miracles. And

48:03

I still love A Course in Miracles, but I haven't been

48:05

reading it just because I kind of shifted the

48:09

whole idea that like the origin

48:11

of reality is guilt and

48:13

that we're like hiding from God, which

48:15

is I've never met A Course in

48:17

Miracles student that in

48:20

my opinion grasps that that's what

48:22

it's saying. Oh, that's interesting.

48:24

No one, no one has ever,

48:27

they don't know what I'm talking about. I've

48:29

only met a couple other A Course in

48:31

Miracles people. There's a lesson in there that

48:33

says the world was made as an attack

48:35

on God. I'm like, how are you ignoring

48:37

this? How are people, don't get me started.

48:40

So anyway, while I think

48:43

it's absolutely incredible and life-changing and I've

48:45

loved it, I sort of backed away

48:47

from it because I prefer Rupert

48:50

Spira's interpretation of the same idea, which

48:52

is that life is an expression of

48:54

the inevitable infinite creativity of

48:56

consciousness that it just wants to

48:58

express itself and sort of dance

49:01

with itself is better to me

49:03

than what I think is true

49:06

to a certain extent that we think we killed

49:08

God and therefore we're hiding from him here. So

49:10

I turned away from the second one of those.

49:13

And that's ultimately why I was like, okay,

49:15

I literally read, I say

49:18

this because I'm proud of it. I

49:20

read almost half of the text,

49:22

which is hundreds of pages. I love

49:24

it. But I ended up going

49:26

more Rupert Spira. That being said, I have this

49:28

book called, Accept This Gift. It's selections

49:30

from A Course in Miracles and just kind of in

49:33

this weird trauma space, been

49:35

going like, you know, like we said

49:37

about weed, that inevitably

49:40

stopped working as it always does. But

49:42

I'm like, I need a disruption. I

49:45

need to change what I'm doing. And maybe I'll read

49:47

something from the course. And I

49:49

thought this was really, really

49:51

beautiful keeping in mind what

49:54

I've been going through, meaning I've been

49:57

thinking a lot about my trauma. And then the

49:59

world. starts feeling a little bit less

50:02

safe. I'm visiting my

50:04

child's self, he's got a lot

50:06

of fear, I'm talking to my

50:09

protector a lot, and it's just like, a

50:12

lot of scary stuff. And then I go

50:14

into the world and no fucking shit, I'm

50:16

worried about money, because I'm worried about, I

50:20

had this real epiphany where I was like,

50:22

all of this pampering and wanting to be

50:24

in show business and wanting to have nice

50:27

things, is all trying to tell that child's self,

50:29

like, I got you, I got you, I got

50:31

you, you're special. Look, you're on

50:33

a set and there's a bowl of Skittles,

50:35

I got you, look, look where I brought

50:37

you. And also look at how you're not

50:40

there anymore. Yes, that's right. But

50:42

now I'm spending all this time going back there

50:44

and it's been clouding my reality,

50:46

it's been making life a little bit sadder

50:48

and a lot more anxious. So then

50:50

I read this this morning and I think it has

50:52

none of that guilt thing, 90%

50:56

of the course doesn't have any of that. Here we go, it's

50:58

called perception. Misperceptions produce

51:01

fear and true

51:03

perceptions foster love. You

51:05

respond to what you perceive and

51:07

as you perceive, so shall you behave. Everything

51:11

you perceive is a witness to the thought

51:13

system you want to be true. It

51:16

means fear or love. What

51:18

you perceive in others, you are strengthening

51:21

in yourself. Perception

51:23

is a choice and not a fact, but

51:26

on this choice depends far more that you

51:28

may realize as yet. From

51:30

the voice you choose to hear and

51:32

on the sites you choose to see depends

51:35

entirely your whole belief in what you

51:37

are. Instruction

51:40

in perception is your great need. What

51:43

would you see? The choice is given

51:45

you, but learn and do not let

51:48

your mind forget this law of seeing. You

51:50

will look upon that which you feel within.

51:54

Isn't that beautiful? If hatred finds

51:56

a place within your heart, you will perceive

51:58

a fearful world. held cruelly

52:00

in death's sharp pointed bony

52:02

fingers. If you feel

52:04

the love of God within you, you will look

52:06

out on a world of mercy and of love."

52:09

So as I was reading this, I was feeling

52:13

kind of like victim me and I was

52:15

like, oh, I'm so wrecked. I just need

52:17

to be under a blanket. And I was

52:19

like, yeah, because you've been looking at like

52:21

fear and depravity

52:23

and all of this hard stuff. And then as

52:26

soon as I just read, if you feel the

52:28

love of God within you, which when I look

52:30

for it, I'm reminded of

52:32

it and go, you will look out on a world

52:34

of mercy and love. And I

52:36

immediately like lifted a cloud from me.

52:38

It was incredible. "'Learn how

52:40

to look on all things with love,

52:42

appreciation, and open-mindedness. You have

52:45

no conception of the limits and

52:48

you have placed on your perception and

52:50

no idea of all the loveliness that you could

52:52

see. Perception can make

52:55

whatever picture the mind desires to see.

52:58

Perception can make whatever picture the

53:00

mind desires to see. Remember this.

53:03

In this lies either heaven or hell as

53:05

you elect." Yeah. And then it

53:07

writes, perception is a mirror, not a fact.

53:10

And what I look on is my state

53:12

of mind reflected outward. It's

53:14

so good. Isn't that good? Yeah. And

53:17

I feel like the part

53:21

that was like, look

53:23

upon everything with acceptance,

53:26

love, whatever, it's

53:28

like- Open-mindedness. Open-mindedness, including

53:30

your fear, including

53:32

your anxiety, including your pain.

53:35

That's what happens when we

53:38

stop and turn and face the monster,

53:40

which is what you've done. And

53:43

it's no mistake. This is

53:45

what I told you yesterday. Like

53:47

you were brave enough to

53:50

go to therapy, to say to

53:52

the therapist, I don't want

53:54

to conceptualize. I'm ready to feel all of

53:56

this because the only way to heal it

53:58

is to feel it. the only way out

54:00

is through, and that's

54:02

what's happening. So this

54:05

is right. It's not,

54:07

because we go so quickly to like,

54:09

I'm so reactive, I'm so overwhelmed, I'm

54:11

having eight ups and downs a

54:13

day, something must be wrong.

54:16

And it's like, no, actually, that's the sign

54:19

that you are doing it. This is what

54:21

doing it looks like. It's

54:23

perfect, it's perfect. And

54:27

looking the paradigm shift of

54:29

looking at it, anytime I,

54:32

of course, still, when I have big

54:35

feelings, the first reaction will always be

54:37

to avoid it or find a problem

54:39

in it. But

54:43

more and more, you will have different

54:46

associations. And I even

54:48

got to a point with the

54:50

thick of my trauma therapy where

54:53

I would be excited, because I would

54:55

go, oh, another

54:57

batch of feelings

54:59

that I'm working through. Offloaded.

55:02

It's coming up to come out, and that

55:04

will be that. See, you

55:06

have all these good ones, it's coming up to come out.

55:09

It's coming up to come out. I don't know that one.

55:11

And that is, and that means you

55:13

don't have to carry it anymore. So

55:16

it's productive, it's not just circling

55:18

the drain, which is what

55:20

happens if you avoid the feelings. But

55:23

then when you can accept, so if

55:25

you find just a way in to

55:27

acceptance, and for me, the way in

55:29

was like, all right, here we go.

55:32

This is offloading. I won't have to

55:34

carry this around anymore after I feel

55:36

it. Then I

55:39

accept the feeling, and I've

55:41

looked at everything. I'm looking

55:43

at that now with acceptance,

55:45

love, and open-mindedness, and it's

55:47

changed my perception. This

55:49

sounds like trauma stuff. It really does.

55:52

And it's also just, it empowered

55:54

me to remember that there's this choice.

55:57

You might even be looking at the same thing. meaning

56:00

I'm not gonna look away from the trauma,

56:02

but you can look at the same thing

56:05

with those. It's just what you just said. Exactly.

56:07

But one of the things I found very interesting

56:11

if you've been keeping up with the

56:13

ups and downs of nicotine, who cares?

56:16

But I think it's interesting, like all of these

56:18

self soothing things.

56:22

And I was surprised

56:24

that like the past week, like

56:26

I quit alcohol and I never crave

56:29

alcohol. Maybe if we're like, I

56:32

don't, I can't even think of one, but there have

56:34

been a few times where I'm like, this is interesting,

56:36

but like I'm jealous that you're having a drink right

56:38

now. That's happened maybe three times in the past seven

56:41

years. But with nicotine this

56:43

past week, I was just like, God damn it.

56:45

Like we're gonna see my parents this

56:47

weekend. My balls hurt

56:49

when I said that. I'm just like, it's

56:52

tricky for me. And

56:55

like this past week, I've been really, I

56:58

hear this persuasive

57:01

guy come in and he's

57:03

like, like you with meat. It's

57:05

like, you don't

57:08

do anything. It's

57:10

good. Like just fucking have a thing.

57:14

And more than just like nicotine isn't just

57:17

a thing. It's a dopamine spiking. So

57:21

it gives you this feeling, good feeling.

57:25

But I see it as

57:27

a self soothing, like as a

57:30

more, you can only masturbate

57:32

42 times a day, but

57:36

you can chew nicotine gum all day and

57:38

just kind of like keep medicating yourself or

57:40

whatever your thing might be. Yeah,

57:42

absolutely. But interestingly, I was

57:45

feeling that, I was feeling that, I was feeling that.

57:47

And luckily I was just kind of like, don't go

57:50

back. Like trust

57:52

the you that got off

57:54

it. And

57:56

then I had therapy and in therapy...

58:00

I'm always going to my childhood bedroom and

58:02

visiting my child's self. And

58:05

we've talked a little bit about this. And

58:08

last session I talked to my protector and

58:10

classic stuff. It was like, how

58:12

old do you think I am? Does

58:16

he look tired? Do you wanna break? What

58:19

do you think is happening? What do you think will happen

58:21

if you- And we uncovered that. We

58:23

were like, if you, and it's always, he's guarding the

58:25

door to my bedroom. And if he

58:27

doesn't guard it, my

58:30

parents will eat me. They'll like, they'll

58:33

somehow consume me or

58:35

I'll become like them in some

58:38

way that I don't wanna be. It's

58:40

really horrible. I mean that quite

58:42

literally. It's horrors. It's my

58:45

own little horror movie. Of course. And even

58:47

talking about it now, it

58:49

brings up, I always picture these breast implants, but

58:51

they're filled with tears, but you know, like kind

58:53

of silicone bags filled with tears behind my eyes.

58:57

Anyway, that wasn't necessary.

58:59

Anyway, I said,

59:01

I went in as my grownup self

59:04

and was like, what do you think's behind this

59:06

door? And I go, this door doesn't

59:09

exist. And I opened it and I took them into the

59:11

house and we saw that it was a movie set. Like

59:14

that house doesn't exist anymore.

59:16

Wow. And I

59:18

was like, my parents aren't here anymore. My

59:21

mom isn't in the bedroom crying and my

59:23

dad isn't here. And you know, like, it's

59:26

not here. It wasn't

59:29

like a one moment fix. No,

59:31

there are none of those. Right, right, right. I know,

59:33

but it's so beautiful. If it was a movie, you'd

59:35

be like, and the protector saw that it was a

59:38

movie set and it's over. But

59:40

what's fucking trippy is

59:42

after that session, my

59:45

desire for nicotine completely went away.

59:47

And I'm not trying to moralize

59:49

nicotine. If you're enjoying this episode,

59:51

chewing on some cigarette, there's

59:53

no judgment at all. I'm

59:56

just saying, I was looking, what I

59:58

was looking to soothe. was

1:00:00

actually this belief

1:00:03

that my parents are gonna come in and

1:00:07

somehow devour me, or

1:00:09

that negativity was gonna somehow overtake me.

1:00:12

Very Lord of the Rings, very like

1:00:14

there's a darkness. And so what I

1:00:16

just read was, it

1:00:22

feels like trauma worked to me. It's like, I

1:00:24

know we're honoring it and

1:00:27

we're saying it's not happening. And that was

1:00:29

my homework, Claudia's homework for me for the

1:00:31

week and for my trip home, was

1:00:35

to just keep reminding it, look

1:00:37

at how many people love you, look

1:00:39

at where you are. Like

1:00:42

I was having therapy and I saw you walking out

1:00:44

to feed the bunnies. And I was like, I can't

1:00:47

hold both of them. It's one of the reasons I

1:00:49

love being with you. It's like, I can't hold

1:00:52

that, I'm not that boy if I'm with

1:00:54

you. But then sometimes in the middle of the night

1:00:57

or when I'm alone or whatever it might be, start

1:01:00

feeling that way again and it comes out.

1:01:04

Anyway, do you wanna hear the second? Go ahead

1:01:06

and we'll just know we have the second thing

1:01:08

to read. Okay, well, yeah, no, I was- Sorry,

1:01:10

we're out of time. I

1:01:13

was gonna say, it's

1:01:15

helpful to know what's happening. So

1:01:19

one of the feelings that happens

1:01:21

early in trauma work, and also if

1:01:23

you're not doing trauma

1:01:26

work and it's catching up with you in some

1:01:28

way, one of the first feelings is like fragmentation.

1:01:32

And I would

1:01:35

couple with that confusion. So

1:01:37

it's sort of this, like

1:01:40

everything is disorganized. I

1:01:42

know I have all these feelings and I

1:01:44

think maybe it's about this, but like why am I feeling that way?

1:01:47

I don't know. And it's just like all of it is disorganized.

1:01:51

So it's really helpful to like have things

1:01:57

like saying to yourself.

1:02:00

like what your homework was, like

1:02:03

having phrases to say

1:02:05

to yourself when you're starting to get

1:02:09

heightened and dysregulated. And

1:02:11

something like that

1:02:13

is not happening anymore is so good

1:02:17

because what's going on is

1:02:19

your limbic brain doesn't know time.

1:02:21

Your lizard brain does not know

1:02:23

this construct of time

1:02:25

that we've created with the different part of

1:02:28

our brains. So you aren't

1:02:30

just feeling like there's a fly in

1:02:32

the room. You are

1:02:34

feeling like all

1:02:37

of the times that something

1:02:40

wasn't working the way that you wanted it

1:02:42

to, that something was-

1:02:44

Why aren't I being protected from this? Yes,

1:02:47

exactly. Why is something- That's

1:02:49

how I feel with the leaf blower in the background right now. Yeah.

1:02:52

It's taking a lot of energy to, but I'm looking

1:02:54

at it and I'm going, yeah, it's

1:02:56

not just an abstraction. That feels

1:02:58

like there's a fight coming

1:03:01

up the stairs. Absolutely. And

1:03:03

so that's

1:03:06

where concepts are helpful, where

1:03:09

you are using it as a container to

1:03:11

go, okay, what do I go back to

1:03:13

what I know? I

1:03:15

know what's happening. I'm feeling

1:03:17

the backlog of feelings. So

1:03:20

there's no shame around it. I

1:03:22

know that I have to feel things to let

1:03:24

them come out. So this is

1:03:26

good. So I'm going to sit here

1:03:28

and let these feelings

1:03:31

like start, for me, it starts at

1:03:33

my belly, it moves to

1:03:35

my chest, it comes up in

1:03:37

my throat, and either it comes out

1:03:39

in a cry or a breath, and

1:03:42

then it's out. And then another one

1:03:44

comes, but there is a pause in

1:03:46

between, there's movement. So you

1:03:48

can feel in there. This is good, you're talking to

1:03:50

me as it's happening. Yeah, and isn't it a relief, it's

1:03:52

a relief once you drop out of the stories

1:03:55

about it. Why

1:03:58

is it happening? Like how

1:04:00

could it be happening after all of this

1:04:03

work? I'm talking to my exact experience right

1:04:05

now. I'm so glad. So the

1:04:07

brain is a barking dog trying to

1:04:09

tell you someone's at the door. Ignore

1:04:13

that. Thank you for trying to protect

1:04:15

us. Let's just go to the door and

1:04:18

see who's there. Okay, it's

1:04:20

just a sensation that's ready

1:04:22

to be released. It's

1:04:25

such good news. It

1:04:27

is. It means that you've created

1:04:29

a safe environment and that you don't have

1:04:31

to carry this anymore. I always picture like

1:04:33

somebody in my belly, like really my body,

1:04:35

I guess, sort of just

1:04:37

tossing clothes out of a

1:04:39

suitcase, being like, thank you. Like

1:04:42

it's been carrying this suitcase and it

1:04:44

is so thrilled that you showed up

1:04:47

to let it unpack this

1:04:49

burden. Wow,

1:04:52

this is great. I

1:04:54

don't think I'll ever forget this

1:04:57

because it's not without some vulnerability

1:04:59

that I admit that the sound

1:05:01

of this guy blowing leaves behind

1:05:03

me is, just

1:05:07

to use my therapist language, I'm having

1:05:09

a trauma response. That's right. Because

1:05:11

I'm thinking about it. It was happening earlier and

1:05:13

I was not thinking about it, but for

1:05:16

some reason I'm thinking about it. And what

1:05:18

I'm recognizing is there's an addiction that

1:05:20

I have, meaning it doesn't work,

1:05:23

but it's a familiar pathway in

1:05:25

my brain. My

1:05:28

strategy is usually to fantasize

1:05:31

about some way to

1:05:33

destroy this person, whether

1:05:36

it be like going, like talking

1:05:39

to our neighbor and being like, why does

1:05:41

your gardener come every day? Which

1:05:43

is true, her gardener comes every day. Why

1:05:45

is this man here every day? Blah,

1:05:48

blah, blah. But that doesn't work. It's just

1:05:50

like me, it's the dog barking. Or

1:05:53

the fantasy might be going out and yelling at

1:05:55

him. Why are you here every day? And

1:05:59

it doesn't work. keep

1:16:00

you safe and

1:16:02

you're really, really, all

1:16:04

right, let's see what comes through the door. And

1:16:06

I haven't, in this regulated moment, I'm like,

1:16:08

well, that's silly, I'm a grown man and

1:16:10

everything's okay. Like I'm resourced and

1:16:12

there are people that love me and I'm

1:16:14

capable and all this stuff. But like most

1:16:17

of this work I've been going like, this

1:16:20

is a mistake, I'm going to be broken and

1:16:23

I'm not gonna be able to do what I, oh, this

1:16:25

will be real cute. When

1:16:27

I can't do standup

1:16:30

because I'm fucked up. This

1:16:32

is exactly, that's right

1:16:35

on cue. 100%,

1:16:37

everybody I know who is embarked

1:16:40

on this work has had that

1:16:42

voice, especially in the

1:16:44

beginning. And thank you,

1:16:47

protector, you are doing exactly what

1:16:49

you needed to do at some

1:16:51

point in your life. That

1:16:53

protector was correct in saying this

1:16:55

will destroy you because you were

1:16:57

a child who was not resourced

1:16:59

and not in a safe environment.

1:17:02

Thank you, protector. I

1:17:04

am a 45 year old man here. I

1:17:07

got myself out of

1:17:09

that situation. I've built an

1:17:12

incredibly beautiful life where I

1:17:14

have teachers and friends and

1:17:16

people who know and

1:17:18

love the real me. I

1:17:21

have spent these

1:17:23

45 years gathering and

1:17:26

assembling a team and tools and

1:17:28

we are ready to go in

1:17:30

the forest and I appreciate

1:17:32

you and you will always be a

1:17:34

part of me. I'm not

1:17:37

going to annihilate you. I'm

1:17:39

just gonna take the microphone for a

1:17:41

bit and I'm

1:17:43

gonna give it to the other parts. Just you

1:17:45

saying that is so nice. I had that today.

1:17:48

I find that like with work,

1:17:50

money, anxiety because

1:17:53

we've talked about how things are slow

1:17:55

and in Hollywood right now there's like

1:17:57

a strike, a union strike looming and

1:18:00

not a lot is happening. blah, blah,

1:18:02

blah. And I think show business and

1:18:04

success specifically have become like my new

1:18:06

parents and like when that starts to

1:18:09

feel unstable, it triggers a similar feeling.

1:18:11

Sure, that makes perfect sense. So it's

1:18:13

not just money and it's not just,

1:18:16

again, I alluded to this earlier, but

1:18:18

I was like, oh no wonder so many traumatized

1:18:20

people are drawn to show business. There's

1:18:23

so much control and there's so much, you

1:18:26

know, I was saying, I was like, I've always thought that it was

1:18:28

like kind of embarrassing that

1:18:30

I wanted to be on

1:18:32

a set where someone would get you a cup

1:18:34

of coffee. By the way,

1:18:37

this is not an ego trip. There's something

1:18:39

nourishing and nurturing

1:18:43

about someone whose job it is to get

1:18:45

everyone on set a coffee that

1:18:47

is sort of like, look, there's

1:18:50

a coffee person and there's

1:18:52

a food truck at lunch. And

1:18:54

it doesn't have to be show business,

1:18:57

but show business certainly can be an

1:18:59

orgy of that type of you're okay,

1:19:01

you're okay, you're okay. Absolutely. And these

1:19:04

fragile performing egos that are drawn

1:19:06

to that. Because I was talking about, I

1:19:08

was like somebody that we know that's a

1:19:10

big actor, it's been having a really hard

1:19:12

time lately the past couple of months because

1:19:14

nothing's really being made right now. And I

1:19:16

was like, why? That person has $20 million.

1:19:18

I don't understand because

1:19:21

they're their new source.

1:19:24

And I'm not feeling great about this, but

1:19:26

I get so

1:19:28

much something I

1:19:31

want to work on, but it's just what it is. So

1:19:33

much of my identity and so much of

1:19:36

my security is

1:19:38

just like that email, an

1:19:40

email that's a job

1:19:43

or an email that's a sponsor, an

1:19:46

email that's a whatever. And

1:19:48

I get it and I'm just like, everything's

1:19:50

right in the exact same way, that if

1:19:52

I text my mom or my dad and

1:19:54

they reply something positive, kind, and even. I

1:20:00

resent that it makes me feel so good.

1:20:02

I hate that it makes me feel so

1:20:05

good. Yeah, I experienced

1:20:07

that. Because it puts my neck on the block. I'm like,

1:20:09

it could have been bad. And that could have drained me.

1:20:11

It would have killed me. This is

1:20:13

why parts work is so important.

1:20:16

I was just talking to a

1:20:18

friend last night who said like,

1:20:20

IFS saved her marriage. Internal family

1:20:22

systems. Yeah, internal family systems saved

1:20:25

her marriage. But

1:20:27

you can say like, my

1:20:30

child self really liked

1:20:33

getting that validation from my

1:20:35

parents just now. Even

1:20:37

if it's an email actually. Cause

1:20:40

that's basically what you were saying. The replacement

1:20:42

is the same feeling when you get the

1:20:44

email. Oh yeah, my

1:20:46

child's, are you kidding me?

1:20:50

He's out there reading the making of

1:20:52

Terminator 2 and obsessing on what

1:20:54

a film set

1:20:56

is. It's

1:20:58

really emotional stuff. All this stuff is very

1:21:00

emotional. And I keep, of course it

1:21:03

is. It's the most important personal

1:21:05

thing. And I keep

1:21:07

thinking of the little boy giggling

1:21:09

on the recording with your brother.

1:21:12

Like that's who we're doing

1:21:14

all of this for. He

1:21:17

couldn't have it done then. But

1:21:19

you are a very strong adult

1:21:22

and you can do it for him now. And

1:21:25

we're doing it for Leela and we're doing it for you.

1:21:28

Adult you. I mean, every part of you. And

1:21:31

it takes, I think

1:21:34

it's the most courageous thing a

1:21:36

person can do. I really, really

1:21:38

do. And you are going in.

1:21:41

And even when you don't wanna be there,

1:21:43

you have, it's like the nicotine thing. That

1:21:45

muscle that you have where you're like, trust

1:21:48

the me that quit nicotine. Yeah,

1:21:51

well, I'm good at that. That's

1:21:53

why I've never gotten back in a relationship.

1:21:55

I'm like, just trust the person that left.

1:21:58

He lost sleep. to

1:22:00

break up with that person and you're gonna go back?

1:22:03

Yeah, and when you get to, when that protector starts

1:22:05

saying like, what are you gonna do? This is gonna

1:22:07

destroy you and you won't be able to make money

1:22:09

and you will to go like, let's just trust. I

1:22:11

had that today and it

1:22:14

was a beautiful, again, all of this

1:22:16

stuff sounds so egocentric, but it's not,

1:22:18

it's health, there's a healthy like, what

1:22:21

are you not? I forget who it was, I wish

1:22:23

I could remember, but somebody at some

1:22:25

point in my adult life said to

1:22:27

me, I was like, what

1:22:30

if stand up went away or

1:22:32

something? And they were like, you

1:22:35

were resourceful and

1:22:37

creative and you came up with, I'll do stand

1:22:39

up. And you're resourceful and you're creative

1:22:41

and you would come up with something else.

1:22:44

I'm not worried about stand up going away, that's not

1:22:46

literally the concern, but it's just like, what

1:22:49

if mom and dad blow

1:22:51

up the world? Yeah, that's

1:22:53

right. And yeah,

1:22:55

you bring Leela into it. It's

1:22:59

that kind of fierce love that will get

1:23:01

you through it. And I wanna

1:23:04

say, you saying like, what if this

1:23:06

destroys me and I can't function or

1:23:08

whatever? I vividly remember one

1:23:10

of my lowest points, it was during

1:23:12

the pandemic, it was the winter, it

1:23:15

was like December, 2020. And

1:23:18

I was falling deep back into like,

1:23:21

what I call a depressive episode, but

1:23:23

now I know is it was a

1:23:25

trauma response. And

1:23:29

I logged onto Zoom, saw

1:23:31

my therapist and fell apart and

1:23:35

just said like, I

1:23:37

am trying so hard to keep it together. I'm

1:23:41

trying so hard not to fall apart.

1:23:44

And she just went, oh, it's

1:23:46

okay to fall apart. And

1:23:49

I just remember the feeling my body

1:23:51

being like, what?

1:23:54

No, it's not. I can't,

1:23:56

I have a child, I have a

1:23:59

partner. I have people I have

1:24:01

to show up for. I have to like

1:24:03

report for duty and like,

1:24:05

but the compassion and the

1:24:08

like confidence that she had

1:24:10

in me that I could

1:24:12

fall apart and it wouldn't annihilate

1:24:15

me. It was all

1:24:17

I needed. But I have

1:24:19

to pay the bills. Yeah, that's, it

1:24:21

comes out in that way. Right, and

1:24:23

I had it with I am somebody's

1:24:26

mother. I'm just

1:24:28

saying no matter what. I get it,

1:24:30

I get it. You have, there will

1:24:32

be a reason that that protector will

1:24:34

say you can't fall apart. And

1:24:38

so it is, it's trusting. And this is

1:24:40

what Jennifer, my therapist says over

1:24:42

and over and over. If she had like a motto, it would

1:24:44

be this, trust

1:24:47

your equipment. Meaning

1:24:49

your body actually does know how

1:24:51

to process this. We

1:24:53

just have to not get in the

1:24:55

way and trust the equipment. And that

1:24:57

only comes, and I can attest to

1:24:59

this from practice

1:25:02

of being dysregulated,

1:25:05

trusting your equipment and then

1:25:07

regulating. The more you regulate

1:25:09

from a dysregulated state, the

1:25:12

more you will absolutely trust it. You'll

1:25:14

be like, I know I've been here

1:25:16

before and I regulated. That's funny because

1:25:18

when I asked at the Rupert Spira

1:25:20

retreat, I asked him about hell, classic

1:25:22

me. I was like, how do we

1:25:24

know that this, we can trust this

1:25:26

consciousness, that it doesn't wanna play

1:25:29

wicked games with us? And he

1:25:31

said, just

1:25:34

explore the nature of awareness in

1:25:36

as many different situations as

1:25:39

you can. And

1:25:41

I've been doing it when I'm like upset. I

1:25:44

take a moment and go like, but is

1:25:46

the knowing that knows the

1:25:49

upset, is it trustworthy?

1:25:52

Is it like clear and spacious and

1:25:54

peaceful? And it always is. And

1:25:56

it's like this, now,

1:25:58

sometimes when I'm upset, I get excited to

1:26:00

go, there's something I do. I go like,

1:26:02

oh yeah, it's like a room that's on

1:26:04

fire, but it goes like, is the space

1:26:07

in the room on fire? Or is

1:26:09

it just holding a fire? And

1:26:11

you're like, oh, the space is still clean,

1:26:14

clear, and under control. I'm so excited

1:26:16

for you to get into, well,

1:26:19

first of all, that's a part in IFS. I

1:26:23

think, I can't remember if it's

1:26:25

called the Wise Healer in that,

1:26:27

or there's another guy, Dan Siegel,

1:26:29

who I wanna introduce you to

1:26:32

his work, because he does the overlap

1:26:35

of trauma work

1:26:38

and spiritual work. And one

1:26:40

of them calls it the Wise Healer. It's

1:26:43

also maybe sometimes called the

1:26:46

True Self, but

1:26:48

it's pure awareness. And both

1:26:50

of those practices, Dan

1:26:53

Siegel's work and Internal Family

1:26:55

Systems has the hub

1:26:58

being your true self.

1:27:00

And they're the ones that are facilitating all

1:27:02

of this. So

1:27:06

it is a practice. That's

1:27:08

why trauma healing as a

1:27:10

spiritual practice is, has

1:27:13

been the most effective for me. Like

1:27:15

not using spirituality to heal

1:27:17

my trauma, but

1:27:19

healing my trauma, and then

1:27:22

identifying with the part of me that

1:27:26

is seeing the feelings come up and

1:27:28

out, that is talking to

1:27:30

all of the parts and coordinating

1:27:33

that. Like what

1:27:35

part of me is doing that? My

1:27:37

pure awareness, my truest self, and it's

1:27:39

able to do that because it's always

1:27:42

regulated. Yeah, I love that. I'm

1:27:45

excited for you. This is a really, really

1:27:47

important and good journey. You're important. And I'm

1:27:49

proud of you. I'm good. All

1:27:52

right, I really appreciate that. I

1:27:54

heard that. This isn't, I

1:27:57

hope this isn't too long. This is another

1:27:59

read. It's not long, it's one page.

1:28:03

And it's amazing. I don't know how

1:28:05

much we went in a different direction, but I

1:28:07

still think this is gold.

1:28:11

So John Astin is another

1:28:14

non-dual teacher that I found from

1:28:16

my friend Tatiana.

1:28:20

I just worried, what if her name isn't

1:28:22

Tatiana? It is Tatiana. I know, but I

1:28:25

just got panicked. It is

1:28:27

Tatiana. So anyway, John Astin, I

1:28:29

love him. He's on YouTube. He's wonderful. And

1:28:31

he wrote this book called This Extraordinary Moment.

1:28:34

And this is something, he's also a

1:28:36

psychologist, I think. Yeah, he's

1:28:38

a clinical psychologist. So anyway, this

1:28:40

is called cognitive fusion. You'll see how this applies to

1:28:42

what we were talking about earlier and maybe what we

1:28:45

were just talking about. Cognitive

1:28:47

fusion, an emerging construct in psychology,

1:28:49

refers to the belief that our

1:28:51

thoughts about whatever is being experienced

1:28:53

are essentially equivalent to that experience.

1:28:57

For example, let's say I have a friend named Dave. To

1:28:59

the extent I am fused with my thoughts

1:29:02

about him, I will imagine Dave is who

1:29:04

I think he is and in doing so,

1:29:06

fail to appreciate that my thoughts about him

1:29:08

are just that, thoughts.

1:29:11

In short, through the mechanism of

1:29:13

cognitive fusion, I will end up

1:29:15

mistaking my mental interpretations of Dave

1:29:18

for Dave himself. Practically

1:29:20

speaking, I'll relate to my friend not as

1:29:22

he actually is, but based on who I

1:29:25

imagine him to be according to my mental

1:29:27

caricature of him. When

1:29:29

we are cognitively fused, which we tend to

1:29:32

be a great deal of the time without

1:29:34

even realizing it, we fail to

1:29:36

recognize that there are

1:29:38

two distinct experimental realms. I'm

1:29:42

sorry, experiential. The

1:29:44

actuality of whatever person, place or thing

1:29:46

is being experienced and two, the

1:29:49

conceptualization or interpretation

1:29:51

of that actuality. Cognitive

1:29:54

diffusion entails recognizing that our thoughts

1:29:56

about whatever is happening are not

1:29:59

the same as the experience. experience

1:30:01

itself because those thoughts represent a

1:30:03

gross oversimplification of whatever

1:30:05

is occurring experientially. Just

1:30:07

as my ideas about a person

1:30:09

like Dave could never capture that

1:30:12

person's complex multidimensional nature. Dave

1:30:15

is a vast ocean of qualities

1:30:17

and characteristics. And the notion that

1:30:19

my ideas about him accurately represent

1:30:21

the entirety of Dave is tantamount

1:30:23

to taking a thimbleful of water

1:30:25

and imagining I've somehow captured the

1:30:27

whole of the sea. He

1:30:30

goes on like that. I think that is

1:30:32

so interesting, but he actually says, jumping

1:30:36

ahead a little bit, he says in

1:30:38

many traditions, we're told that our problem is a lack

1:30:40

of focus. So they prescribe meditation to

1:30:42

learn how to focus. And he is actually, I

1:30:44

think, um, the

1:30:48

problem of cognitive fusion is not one

1:30:50

of too little focus, but actually rooted

1:30:52

in excessive focus. For example, in any

1:30:54

moment you find yourself seemingly caught up

1:30:56

in some torrent of thinking or worrying.

1:30:59

There are untold numbers of other phenomena

1:31:01

occurring, flickers of energy, washes

1:31:03

of sound, sparkles of color and light,

1:31:05

all of which have absolutely nothing to

1:31:08

do with those mental narratives. Whoa.

1:31:11

That's so good. And I'm sorry, I'm glad I went on.

1:31:13

Sometimes when I'm reading, I'm like, this is boring and boring.

1:31:15

No, I loved that. I jumped a little ahead. It

1:31:17

was beautiful. Isn't that great? And so let

1:31:20

me, I'll just finish it. It sounds

1:31:22

like you're lit up. And so one

1:31:24

of the keys to freeing yourself from

1:31:26

cognitive fusion is to see that the

1:31:28

narratives and interpretations about what is happening

1:31:30

are infinitesimally small compared to the vastness

1:31:32

of experience itself. By feeling

1:31:34

the ways in which direct

1:31:36

experience is inconceivably subtler, more

1:31:39

complex and multidimensional than your

1:31:41

ideas about it. You begin

1:31:43

to uncover a profound depth

1:31:45

and richness in everything that

1:31:47

is encountered. Wow. Hot,

1:31:50

hot off the press. John

1:31:52

Astin, this extraordinary moment,

1:31:54

check it out. I'm this will

1:31:56

be quick, but it just, it's almost a

1:31:58

synchronicity because my, my. other friend who said

1:32:02

internal family systems saved her marriage last

1:32:04

night. She was sharing a method

1:32:06

that her therapist used with it

1:32:09

where, and I,

1:32:11

and this isn't internal family systems necessarily, I

1:32:13

don't think, but she went

1:32:15

back to a, she

1:32:17

described it like being in like a library

1:32:19

with all these files and some of the

1:32:23

files are glowing red hot and

1:32:26

she would go and pick one up and then it

1:32:28

would be like a memory. And she went back to

1:32:30

this memory of having C diff,

1:32:32

which is like a breastfeeding infection,

1:32:35

like a mammary gland. It's like very

1:32:37

painful, makes you really sick and on

1:32:39

top of being postpartum and like in

1:32:42

COVID and it was like a Trump.

1:32:45

And so she went back to the memory of being on her

1:32:47

hands and knees in the bathroom and the

1:32:49

tunnel vision of seeing the bath mat and

1:32:51

just sobbing and thinking

1:32:54

this will destroy me. I'll never

1:32:56

recover from this. And

1:32:59

the therapist guided her in

1:33:01

into going, okay, what

1:33:03

else is in the bathroom? And

1:33:06

she was like, actually, I had the,

1:33:09

that was when I had like the

1:33:11

star Wars wallpaper and I did have

1:33:13

twinkle lights around and I

1:33:15

remember this apricot soap that I had

1:33:17

at the time. And I remember even

1:33:19

in the midst of it thinking like, I'm

1:33:21

really glad I have a nice sweet

1:33:23

smelling soap and like seeing

1:33:25

the bigger picture

1:33:28

all around. That's like going, you know,

1:33:30

like so that it just made me

1:33:32

think about the tunnel vision that we

1:33:35

get the hyper focus, especially when we're

1:33:37

dysregulated. That's why people, I think

1:33:39

it's actually a beautiful thing when people often

1:33:41

share about like getting really bad news, getting,

1:33:43

you know, finding out that a loved one

1:33:45

died, you know, they always

1:33:48

go. And I remember seeing like the

1:33:50

steam from the teacup. It's

1:33:52

like this hyper focus. And

1:33:55

so the practice of going back

1:33:57

to a memory even and going

1:33:59

like what else was

1:34:02

happening to remember the bigger

1:34:04

reality. That's why I

1:34:07

love Mary Oliver poems that are like,

1:34:10

meanwhile, the geese

1:34:13

are flying or like the ocean is good. It's

1:34:15

like, it's such a comfort

1:34:18

to go right. No,

1:34:20

that's exactly right. Oh, we should, thank

1:34:23

you. Read

1:34:25

Wild Wild. We don't have to read the whole thing.

1:34:27

Yeah, let's read it. I mean,

1:34:30

everybody wants to hear this song. Tell

1:34:33

me your despair. Yeah. Well,

1:34:35

it's so short, you read it. Just read the whole thing. You read

1:34:37

it. All right, and we'll end on this. Unless

1:34:40

you had something. Okay,

1:34:42

Wild Geese by minute. No, sorry, no.

1:34:46

You do not have to be good. You

1:34:49

do not have to walk on your hand,

1:34:51

on your, oh shit. I blew it already.

1:34:53

Okay, Wild Geese from Mary Oliver, I take

1:34:55

two. You

1:34:58

do not have to be good. You

1:35:00

do not have to walk on your knees for 100 miles through

1:35:03

the desert repenting. You

1:35:06

only have to let the soft animal

1:35:08

of your body love what it loves.

1:35:12

Tell me about despair, yours,

1:35:14

and I will tell you mine. Meanwhile,

1:35:17

the world goes on. Meanwhile,

1:35:21

the sun and the clear pebbles

1:35:23

of the rain are moving across

1:35:25

the landscapes, over the

1:35:27

prairies and the deep

1:35:29

trees, the mountains and the

1:35:31

rivers. Meanwhile,

1:35:33

the wild geese high in the

1:35:36

clean blue air are

1:35:38

heading home again. Whoever

1:35:41

you are, no matter how

1:35:43

lonely, the world offers

1:35:45

itself to your imagination. Calls

1:35:48

to you like the wild geese, harsh

1:35:51

and exciting, over

1:35:53

and over announcing your place in

1:35:55

the family of things. It's

1:35:59

beautiful. It's

1:36:01

every time. It's every time. Richard Rohrer before he reads

1:36:03

it points out that I think it's the Celtic, one

1:36:06

of the Celtic images of

1:36:08

God with a wild goose. And

1:36:11

he's like, how different from our

1:36:13

understanding, a wild goose. Honk.

1:36:16

Honk. Beautiful goose. Honk.

1:36:19

Oh my God. You

1:36:23

are divinity itself. Oh,

1:36:25

right. Well,

1:36:27

you really went on a wild ride

1:36:29

with us this time, you guys, from

1:36:32

sex to trauma. Yeah. And

1:36:34

everything in between. That's it. All

1:36:36

right. Go ahead and

1:36:39

keep it crispy.