12:00

You know this. I know, but it's just too

12:03

much sometimes. Okay, I'm sorry.

12:06

We'll tone it down, but I can't make it

12:08

because it's too hot. Everything

12:11

you're saying. You're like

12:13

a Greta Gerwig character.

12:16

And it's a delight. You're maintaining

12:19

some of that spark and that zeal.

12:21

Can I say, I'm in one of

12:24

those phases where I'm like, what I'm

12:26

interested in is something that makes me

12:28

feel interested. I know that's so stupid,

12:30

but I feel like that's the feeling

12:32

of middle age. You're still out there

12:34

wanting your six soups. There

12:36

are certain things that are, I was

12:39

talking about this at Largo, that your

12:41

20s is your time to correct people

12:43

on Frankenstein's monster. Once

12:46

you hit like 30, fucking stop. You

12:49

stop. Stop. Then you're onto you

12:51

or your. Or you do, no, that's still 20s.

12:54

But there. I just made that up.

12:57

There's different ones. When you're

12:59

in your 20s, that's when you genuinely

13:02

correct Frankenstein's monster.

13:05

They're insane. And then later you get a

13:07

little embarrassed about it. And then when you're

13:09

in your 30s, you go, or whatever, Frankenstein's

13:11

monster. That's right. And then in your 40s,

13:13

I'll tell you, you just say it's Frankenstein.

13:16

It's over. That

13:18

is it. That really encapsulates.

13:22

Oh, I gotta write that down. 20s,

13:24

I'll write it here. 20s, oh great. Isn't that

13:27

one of the least that, I just wrote this

13:29

on the back of a sticker. Don't

13:34

you hate when you accidentally write something on

13:36

the back of a sticker? Well, it's where

13:38

a sticker was, which the

13:40

only way, I'm using a Sharpie. And

13:43

the only. Oh

13:46

my God. And the only way.

13:48

This is riveting podcasting. The only

13:50

way I can describe writing on

13:52

what was once the adherence plane

13:54

for a sticker. Jesus.

14:00

Do you know, does everyone know what I'm

14:02

talking about? You have a

14:04

piece of, you have a piece

14:06

of sticker. You

14:09

peel the sticker off. What's

14:12

left is an

14:14

off-white, semi-slick previous

14:17

home of the sticker. It

14:19

used to hold the sticker,

14:22

but what's left now is just kind of like

14:24

a... What

14:27

is it? It's a little bit slick.

14:30

It's a little shiny. Oh

14:32

my god. And then you grab

14:34

a Sharpie. Sharpie. Sharpie. The

14:38

fucking Tetris of pens.

14:40

You know what I mean? No. Not the game,

14:42

but when you get a Tetris, like the long

14:44

and the full stack. When

14:48

you get a long in

14:50

the full stack. What

14:52

the hell is happening? You're

14:56

playing Tetris. You know this

14:58

and it's set up perfectly and there's just one

15:00

slot the size of the long

15:02

piece. You know that's called a

15:04

Tetris? No, I didn't know. Did you know

15:06

it's a noun? That's a Tetris? I didn't

15:08

know it was a noun, but I could

15:11

have used context clues, but I didn't know

15:13

what a full stack was. No one. That's

15:15

where I was, I was wandering away from

15:17

the RV on that one. And there were

15:19

animals tracking me. Oh

15:22

god. And I peed on myself, which made

15:24

it easier for them to find me. Oh

15:26

my god. So anyway, I'm trying to write

15:28

on that slick former home of a sticker,

15:30

the adherence plane. The

15:33

adherence plane. And you write with a

15:35

Tetris of a pen, which is the

15:37

Sharpie. I still don't get

15:39

quite the best at Tetris. What I'm saying

15:41

is it's so permanent. It's so bold. I'm

15:45

saying it's so... Just like the noun. Tetris.

15:48

Like the feeling of writing on

15:50

a clean white piece of paper

15:52

with a black, a new black,

15:54

I'm talking pointy tip Sharpie

15:57

is the feeling of a Tetris. So

15:59

I'm... I'm speaking like the guy that

16:01

thinks he's so interesting. I'm speaking in

16:03

feelings. Like shut the fuck up, that's

16:05

my feeling. Also by the way, just

16:07

such a quick tangent on the thousands

16:09

of tangents that we have, don't forget.

16:12

You love a bold pen. My space. You

16:14

love a bold pen. My space. Look, I

16:16

wrote it on the thing we're talking about.

16:18

The adherence point. The adherence point, my space.

16:21

I wrote it. I do love a bold

16:23

pen and I hate it. I hate it, I'm

16:25

gonna say it, a weak pen. And I hate

16:27

a bold pen. Something Trump would say. Hate a

16:29

weak pen, weak pen, no good. And I think

16:31

that that- By the way, we haven't seen the

16:33

debate, so no hot take there. Did something happen

16:35

with a pen? You guys are

16:37

in the future. We're in the wondering

16:39

zone. Oh right, it's tonight. You're in the knowing

16:41

zone. Yeah. So if

16:43

something happened with a pen, I regret it. I regret it, I'm dead.

16:49

I wonder if there is something to be

16:51

said about your personality if you like a

16:53

bold pen or not. Because I love a

16:55

light pen. And I feel like I write-

16:57

I like your tattoo. Yeah, like I

16:59

write so much better

17:01

in like a smooth, light ballpoint pen. And

17:03

all the pens that you have in this

17:06

house are sharpies

17:08

or those like droopy ones. Where if

17:10

you stop to think for a second,

17:13

you gotta glop. Yeah,

17:15

yeah, yeah, that pen is a

17:17

woman with a tight bun, pearl

17:20

necklace, scratchy top,

17:23

buttoned up tight. It's like a jacket. You don't

17:26

see what's under it. It's tight. And

17:28

she's tapping her watch. Yeah, but

17:30

this pen is a Tetris. This

17:33

pen is a Tetris. I'm

17:35

in a kind of a shamanic space.

17:39

I'm able to see feelings. And

17:42

that's a librarian. Let's just call that one a

17:44

while. Yeah, she's a librarian. But she's tap, tap,

17:46

tap. Yeah, tick, tap, tick, tap. I also like

17:48

pens that will open, you know when you buy

17:51

like a novelty toy, as

17:53

opposed to those practical toys. But

17:55

a toy for novelty. And let's

17:57

say it's like a Donkey Kong.

26:00

is a people to you

26:03

and I, they would seem

26:05

primitive, a hot

26:07

dwelling. Okay, so just call

26:10

him indigenous. I

26:12

actually don't even know if that's true. I've

26:14

always imagined it might be like a shaman

26:17

kind of thing, like

26:19

an Amazon, I don't know though. Okay. But,

26:24

turtles all the way down is the earth.

26:26

Why doesn't the earth fall, they would say?

26:29

Because it's in space. Right. Why doesn't

26:31

it fall? And they'd say, well, the whole earth

26:33

is on the back of a turtle. And

26:36

then a child, I'm making

26:38

it a story, a child

26:40

is purported to say, what's

26:42

holding up the turtle? The

26:45

shaman with a twinkle in his eye

26:47

says, oh, my dear boy, it's

26:49

turtles all the way down. What? You've

26:52

never heard, you've never heard. I've never. The

26:54

guy who just got out of college and

26:56

he's giving being a grownup a try. You've

27:00

never heard? Like he thinks that's how

27:02

grownups talk. Oh my. Oh

27:04

my, you've never heard? You've never heard. You've never heard.

27:06

Turtles all the way down. So

27:08

they're like stacked? Yeah, you

27:10

can find memes images, like people make images

27:12

of it's the earth and there's just thousands

27:14

of turtles. It's just a way

27:16

of saying like, who fucking knows,

27:18

man? It's turtles all the way down. You know

27:21

what I mean? Yeah, I love this. I love

27:23

this now. Dracula didn't loving it? Yeah, a turtle's

27:25

all the way down, my brother. Turtles

27:28

all the way down is premium. Yeah.

27:33

Premium wool suits. Leela

27:36

did do like. Excuse me. I

27:38

threw out a look. Okay, go ahead. And that was

27:40

my way of saying, next

27:43

game of Street Fighter is mine. All right. No,

27:45

go ahead, Leela did what now? She like was

27:47

doing a Y, you know, the Y game where

27:49

I would just say something and then she'd say

27:51

Y and then say something and she'd say Y.

27:53

I was like kind of up for

27:55

it. And those games even like just

27:57

always get to like the nature of.

27:59

Yeah. reality. So it's like, because

28:02

it's good to be kind. Why? Because

28:04

we need each other. Why? Because it

28:07

was designed that way. Why? Well, I

28:09

don't know. Like it's just like, because

28:11

the nature of the universe is because

28:13

unconsciously we know we belong to each

28:16

other. Yeah. Why? Because everything is one

28:18

thing. Yeah. Why? Because the fundamental non

28:21

fragmentable essence of nature would have to be

28:23

one thing. Right. We have to be that

28:26

thing. But I didn't really get into that.

28:28

I just, I was, I kind of said,

28:30

I was like, um,

28:32

well, we don't know. And she was like, why?

28:35

And I was like, cause it's more fun to

28:37

wonder. And then I

28:39

was like, yeah, that's my story. And I'm

28:41

sticking to it. That's my story. And I'm

28:43

a shaking. But that was before I heard

28:45

turtles all the way down. And now that

28:48

is my religion. That's my religion. No turtles

28:50

all the way down. I

28:52

also just recently heard about and

28:54

this could, whenever you're dealing with native, I'm not

28:56

trying to be funny, native American stuff. And

28:59

I asked, no, this is native American

29:01

stuff. The rapper Nas. Cause

29:05

I don't, there's not a lot

29:07

of native American imagery, but now that I

29:09

know what his name is. It's

29:13

just insanity. Really dumb. So

29:15

native American stuff, always tricky.

29:18

Um, so with full respect and the

29:20

openness to being wrong, I

29:22

heard that when there was

29:24

a lot of early steel work

29:26

in America, imagining early

29:29

1900s that a lot of the employees that they

29:31

got employees, I don't know. I don't know if this is

29:33

a terrible situation, but a lot of the people that did

29:35

the steel work in those early

29:37

days of building up American cities were native American. This

29:39

is what I was told. And

29:42

it was, I know, I know.

29:44

Yeah. Somehow that was glossed

29:46

over in the retelling. I'm like, what,

29:49

what kind of situation is this? Not sure. But

29:52

the reason, let's say it's consensual for

29:54

the, I mean, but they don't want

29:57

to probably didn't want the progress in

29:59

that way. Anyway, go ahead. Well,

30:03

yeah, let's get the guys that never did

30:05

that to do that. It's kind of weird.

30:07

It's like getting the Amish to install your

30:09

direct TV. It's wrong. I

30:11

get it. Look, when this

30:13

person said it, they were done and already

30:15

halfway through a cigarette by now. All they

30:18

said was, because in

30:20

this person's report, Native

30:22

Americans are less afraid of dying because

30:25

they're just more super

30:27

spiritual culture and had more

30:29

awareness and less attachment to

30:32

traveling between planes, worlds,

30:34

lives, whatever you might want to say. This

30:38

sounds like white person bullshit, as I'm

30:40

saying. And even if it is true,

30:42

you're like, certainly a white

30:44

person was like, and we could

30:46

use that to make money.

30:48

Right. Right. Not

30:51

only use that lack of fear to

30:53

have them build stuff, but also use

30:55

that story as like my empowerment. Right.

30:58

I get it. Or also

31:00

just make that assumption to

31:02

then justify slavery. They

31:04

don't mind if they die. Well, we're not

31:07

sure. I don't know. I'm pretty sure

31:09

it probably wasn't. Here's

31:11

American history. George

31:14

Washington. I

31:18

was going to say 9-11. That's not

31:20

right. No. But I

31:22

was just looking for big American things. You

31:25

can't be mad at me on a list

31:27

of big American things. That's

31:30

what Batman stands for. I

31:33

mean, he sometimes references America, but not

31:35

enough to be called big American things,

31:37

man. Oh my

31:40

God. How did you do that? I

31:42

can't. I'm scared. You did

31:44

a NAS and then you instantly went

31:46

to... Yeah. Batman.

31:49

Also Batman does stand for big American things.

31:52

Superman especially does. Superman

31:54

is tray American, which is funny to

31:56

say because that's French. want

32:00

to say for those of you keeping

32:02

up week by week on this pod

32:05

one you are darling who are you

32:07

who are you what's your

32:09

name out loud right now say it out loud

32:11

and when you vote for Trump say that out

32:13

loud it works it's a

32:16

beautiful way to vote more masculine more

32:18

beautiful my beautiful red bush actually

32:20

the bush has been wrong gray I die

32:22

up top down south it's it's the south

32:28

our Trump spubes orange are they answer

32:31

from your gut no

32:33

he keeps them natch so

32:36

you he's one panting away from

32:38

like a pretty big demoralization

32:41

oh my god could

32:45

pants Trump would be the hero

32:47

of any of our generation you

32:49

pants Biden and it's just two robo legs

32:52

like he's been slowly replaced

32:54

like grandpa's boat you know that one grandpa's

32:57

boat yeah that's another turtles all the

32:59

way down anyway isn't

33:01

it just in vogue right now to also take

33:03

a little shot at Biden Oh devilish

33:07

I sometimes I look at how we're

33:10

all in the same ocean and it's just

33:12

so stupid and we all think it's us

33:14

but it's really like when

33:16

you like like with something big

33:18

like me too and then it starts to like

33:21

soften and people starts kind of like maybe saying

33:23

maybe disease isn't the same as Harvey Weinstein we

33:25

all did that on the same timetable did you

33:27

notice that you know I'm saying yeah

33:29

like we and making fun of Biden as well

33:31

when Biden when it was down to that last

33:33

election you weren't making fun of Biden and then

33:36

we all but we all did it at the

33:38

same time we're all like butterfly affecting one another

33:40

is all I'm saying well that's whenever there's something

33:42

happening to the entire country which is why I

33:44

picked me to an election yeah

33:46

we're all kind of doing it as one

33:48

giant school of fish my nose is running

33:50

I'm gonna pinch it with my PJs man

33:53

I can confirm you are

33:56

pinching with your panda PJs

33:58

my panda PJs have I

34:00

pinched my parched pear-a-sow.

34:03

Okay. I

34:05

already know this is one we're gonna listen

34:07

to again and again. Pure insanity. On Christmas

34:10

and Christmas Eve. The

34:13

way you said on Christmas, your

34:15

face looked so sweet and earnest.

34:18

On Christmas. On Christmas. Let me update all

34:20

the sweet babies that have been listening. Oh,

34:23

God. Oh, God. Doesn't

34:26

sound as bad in here. Okay, well, it sounds

34:29

really terrible out here. I

34:33

did go, we did go, but that's

34:35

significant the language that I went to see my

34:37

parents, because you were there too. But

34:40

you know, I'm

34:42

back. Long

34:45

silence. I'm back. We went

34:47

to Boston to see my parents. Long

34:49

silence. I'm back. And

34:51

you know, it was

34:53

very interesting. And today I'm feeling real

34:56

nice. Right now I'm feeling real

34:58

nice. Slowly getting back into

35:00

a place. Remember the peep

35:03

from like five, well,

35:05

I'll say three months ago, who

35:09

was all about get up, spend

35:11

the morning doing your spiritual stuff.

35:14

Then first thing before you check your phone

35:16

or email, spend two hours creating. Then

35:19

around one o'clock, you're gonna look at your emails and

35:21

your texts. You're gonna bang those out and how good

35:23

that feels and how amazing that is. Guess

35:26

what fucks all of that

35:28

so fucked hard? Trauma.

35:31

Right. I now have

35:33

such a different appreciation

35:37

for people. Meaning

35:40

if someone is not good

35:42

at replying to texts or

35:44

emails or creating or getting

35:46

up and going or whatever,

35:48

grabbing life by the balls,

35:50

it's probably trauma. Yeah.

35:53

And I'm saying that as someone who started

35:55

to look under the pot, the pot lid

35:58

and take a peekaboo. At the beans.

36:00

At the beans. And the beans are

36:03

just a lot of uncomfortable memories. And

36:06

the memories, to encourage

36:08

people who might be trauma

36:10

curious, trauma or curious, they're

36:13

not necessary. I always thought it was going to

36:16

be like, and I opened the

36:18

closet and there was my father with a

36:20

knife, you know, like something like that. No

36:23

disrespect to people that have trauma like

36:25

that. I'm just saying I thought it

36:27

had to be event based, kind of

36:29

like a movie. Like you

36:31

go into a hypnotic state or a

36:34

psychedelic state or a meditative state. And

36:36

that's when you remember like, wait, I,

36:38

something about water dripping on my toe.

36:41

And that might, that may be how

36:43

some memories are revealed. And

36:45

I want to honor those and have full respect, all joking

36:47

aside. What I've been

36:49

experiencing is

36:52

repressed feelings, not

36:55

something as of yet

36:57

that I didn't remember. It

37:00

was a swirl of emotions,

37:02

sensations and then beliefs that

37:04

were made from those emotional sensational

37:07

places. I

37:10

could have let it go. I

37:18

know, but I didn't have to say it. I

37:20

didn't have to say sensational. Anyway,

37:23

the work has been with this

37:26

new therapist I'm seeing, all

37:29

kind of talking a little bit about

37:31

my childhood, whatever, but mostly

37:34

stopping and feeling things. And

37:36

when I say that I would prefer

37:39

my ego, my, my structure, my, my,

37:42

whatever, my presentational

37:44

self would rather just talk

37:46

about it. Oh yeah. I

37:49

can't tell you what a simultaneous

37:53

revelation and liberation it

37:55

is. And also what

37:58

a clusterfuck of like. I'm

50:00

trying to like re-bolster

50:03

myself image. But I think

50:05

that that is, it's

50:08

like a child in a grown

50:10

up suit, like a big suit

50:12

that doesn't fit him. That's right.

50:14

He's trying to prove that he's

50:16

an adult. Your actual adult self

50:19

is the version of you when you're regulated

50:21

that comes out. And

50:24

he knows that he can't control

50:26

everything and that it's okay and

50:28

that he will be okay. But

50:31

your child self understandably is like, you

50:34

know. It's crazy. I feel like that's

50:36

like one of those pictures, like a

50:38

sepia tone picture of like a little

50:40

rascal and like, you know, you're picturing

50:43

it, the like brown giant suit. Yeah.

50:46

And I think that's a good image

50:48

for like when you're feeling that way

50:51

is like. It's funny Seinfeld

50:53

in the movie comedian likens when your

50:56

new hour isn't ready. He

50:58

goes, I'm like a kid in my father's suit. It's

51:00

baggy. Yeah. So there is this like, there's

51:03

a connection here becoming a standup and

51:05

wanting to get on stage and like

51:07

prove that like, it's like trying

51:10

to prove I'm a grownup, I'm the

51:12

one on stage. I have the control. I'm

51:14

in control and I'm gonna make it like

51:16

this. That's why I was gonna say when

51:19

my father, where some people might hear this and

51:21

I understand if they're like, it's so sweet that

51:23

my dad came to my show in Boston. It's

51:27

so hard for me to be a

51:29

father, husband, comedian, whatever,

51:32

that's my work and my family and

51:34

my relationships and also

51:36

get, even if

51:38

it's just part of the tornado that sucks me

51:41

into that, like in the same way that I

51:43

can't see my adult self in my childhood bedroom,

51:45

it's hard for me to be the guy I

51:47

need to be. So for people

51:50

that don't remember, my dad came to my

51:52

show in Boston without telling

51:54

me, which I say

51:56

this on stage, it would have been sweet if he bought a

51:58

ticket and did it secretly. He did. saying

54:00

is that's a moment where

54:02

I'm going, I'm a grown

54:04

up. I thought I still lived

54:07

in that house. Yeah, that's right.

54:09

And that's why confusion is the

54:12

main feeling in

54:14

the beginning of trauma work is you really

54:16

are like having, I

54:18

don't know if you had this really

54:20

when you changed, I

54:23

guess another veil lifting maybe would be your

54:27

wife leaving you, but, or,

54:29

you know, I was going to say when you, veil

54:33

lifting for her, am I right? I'm

54:35

sure it was actually. But when

54:38

I was going to say when

54:40

you started deconstructing your

54:43

faith or whatever, for me, that's the, the

54:45

go-to veil lifting experience,

54:49

but trauma is the veil lifting

54:51

and, and it's trauma

54:53

work and you are, you're split in

54:56

two exactly like you said. So it's

54:58

very confusing. Integrating, you're trying to integrate

55:00

these two things. And it's very fragmenting

55:03

because you have one foot in

55:06

eat in two different boats. Yeah. And

55:08

that's why it feels worse. It really

55:11

was like to use that boat metaphor. It

55:13

really was like you were in the child

55:15

boat most of the

55:17

time and now you've

55:20

stood up on a wobbly boat.

55:22

You've stepped into the adult

55:25

self boat and you're trying to balance

55:28

two wobbly boats without them drifting apart

55:30

and Oh my God. Making you do

55:32

the splits. That's exactly how I felt.

55:34

Thank you. And, and

55:36

that is, that's why

55:38

it feels worse before it feels better

55:41

because that's very wobbly

55:43

ground and we can feel really

55:46

untethering, but eventually

55:48

you'll have both feet in that adult

55:51

self boat and it

55:54

will feel sturdy in a way that the

55:56

child self boat could never have felt. I

55:58

know. I'm in one of those. times in

56:00

my life where I

56:02

feel a certain way and not to

56:04

be hyper spiritual, but this

56:07

is so weird, but like the way

56:09

that I feel I can see is

56:11

not fully desirable. Meaning I know it's

56:13

not the best way I can feel.

56:16

I'm cool with it and that is me

56:18

practicing non-resistance. That's how I like to engage

56:20

with it. I'm aware of a heaviness. I'm

56:22

aware of a sadness. I'm aware of anger.

56:24

I'm aware that my temper is a little

56:26

bit shorter. I'm aware that my creativity, not

56:28

today, but most days, not today, is

56:31

a little bit stifled, all these things. And

56:36

when you're in that way, in that

56:38

state, what I find fresh

56:40

and interesting every time, anew,

56:43

is that you can't imagine that you won't feel that

56:45

way. Absolutely. And

56:48

intellectually, there's a keeper of the candle and

56:50

it's like, I know you will

56:52

feel better. And

56:55

if I'm being honest, now

56:57

you're talking to the other side, I'm like,

57:00

not so sure about that chief. I'm

57:02

like, sure. And that's my protector too.

57:04

He's going like, you wanted to peek under the lid and

57:06

look at the beans. Just

57:08

so you know, I don't

57:11

sign the Avengers Accord. I'm

57:13

not, I think that's history.

57:15

I'm not co-signing on

57:18

this. So when everything

57:20

goes to shit, just

57:22

know that I was over here. I

57:24

have some funnier stuff to say. Let's

57:27

go to the mid-rolls and then I'll tell some

57:29

funny stories from the trip home that I think

57:31

are actually are funny. And I have a reading

57:35

from, again, from John Aston that

57:37

I did this morning and it was

57:39

absolutely glorious. Either we'll do a

57:42

little bit of it, but I do want to

57:44

tell some stories and have some laughs and hear

57:46

what it was like for you. Absolutely.

57:48

Just the last thing is like that

57:50

protector not signing the Avengers Accord. That's

57:53

why it's such an important part

57:56

of internal family systems to

57:59

make friends with the protector first. That's

58:01

what we're doing. Exactly.

58:03

No, nobody's firing the protector. Yeah.

58:06

I'm saying I'm here to help. Right. And

58:09

I ask him things like, are you tired?

58:12

Yeah. Like he's real stressed. And the first story I'm

58:14

gonna tell is an example

58:17

of why this guy, this poor, he

58:21

kind of looks like the toxic Avenger.

58:23

Like he's really been through it. Yeah.

58:25

God love him. He's kind of a

58:27

funny character, but also terrifying and big

58:29

and loud and all these things. But

58:31

there's a comedy to trying

58:34

to be a protector against the

58:36

types of personalities my family was.

58:38

Yeah, absolutely. Was. Was. All

58:40

right, we'll be right. Oh, we're doing the mid rolls at

58:42

50. Cool, cool, cool, cool,

58:44

cool, cool, cool. We'll be right back. I

58:47

just washed my hair with shampoo. And I

58:49

just washed my hair with modern mammals, which is why it

58:51

doesn't look like a bale of hay you just took out

58:53

of the microwave. Hey. Exactly. Modern

58:56

mammals washes your hair, but it leaves the

58:58

natural oils you need for it to look

59:00

perfect and in control. Wait, but it's not

59:02

a shampoo? It's like a shampoo, but it's

59:05

like a non shampoo shampoo. But it cleans

59:07

your hair. Like shampoo. But

59:09

not shampoo. Because it won't dry it

59:11

out. Like a shampoo. A non

59:13

shampoo shampoo that'll clean your hair like shampoo, but

59:15

won't dry it out like shampoo. Shampoo.

59:19

I think that's good. That's like our new slogan.

59:21

Thank you. It's probably too many words. Modern mammals,

59:23

a non shampoo shampoo that'll clean your hair like

59:25

shampoo, but won't dry it out like shampoo. Shampoo.

59:30

That really scared me. I

59:32

have a lot of power here. I

59:35

can see that. Can you make me taller?

59:39

I'm here for hair stuff only. Okay.

59:42

Yeah, sorry. Healthy hydration isn't

59:44

just about drinking water, weirdos. It's about drinking

59:46

water plus electrolytes. And if you're a kid

59:48

from the 90s like me, that

59:50

usually meant drinking like a flat red soda

59:52

that had a little electrolyte in there somewhere.

59:54

It was really just like 360 calories from

59:56

pure cane sugar. Barely.

1:04:00

I've been loving it. Interesting thing. Every

1:04:02

time. Thank you. With the more we're

1:04:04

like Jay and Matt on that show,

1:04:07

the happier I am. And that was

1:04:09

a very Nirvana the Man the Show

1:04:11

moment. Alone in my, like. Yeah.

1:04:14

I will say I'm more annoying than Matt's

1:04:17

character is. Like I do it more.

1:04:20

Oh. Do you think? Yeah.

1:04:22

No? Same? No,

1:04:24

same. I think same. High compliment.

1:04:26

Yeah. Anyway, I'm obsessed. Him.

1:04:29

The operation avalanche is,

1:04:31

I mean, they did like a

1:04:35

mockumentary. Yeah. With

1:04:37

like eight millimeter cameras. Yeah. That

1:04:39

alone is just. It's so. It's a

1:04:42

period piece. And it's, I

1:04:44

can't say enough good about it. And there's like big

1:04:46

set pieces. That's what I was gonna say. They never.

1:04:49

Let's say if you're even a little bit

1:04:51

interested in how they might fake the food

1:04:53

landing, the moon landing, that's in there. Like

1:04:55

it would be like, it would have been

1:04:58

like this. And you see it and you're

1:05:00

like, holy shit, that would have worked. And

1:05:02

it's not a conspiracy movie per se, but

1:05:05

it's an exploration of what if that is

1:05:07

what happened. But it's also really funny, but

1:05:09

also like there's like Spielberg

1:05:12

level. Remember when

1:05:14

the wife comes home? No, there's, I'm like

1:05:16

covering my face. Like a

1:05:18

gas. I know. Like

1:05:21

shock. Like real human emotion

1:05:24

and the silliest boy. I know. Being

1:05:27

the funniest. I

1:05:29

know. It's so good. I don't understand. You

1:05:31

guys have to. Watch

1:05:33

Operation Evelyn. We in

1:05:35

no way profit from this. It does

1:05:37

feel like, it does feel

1:05:39

like we've both had this experience where we're

1:05:41

like in love

1:05:44

with Matt Johnson and with

1:05:46

Jay McCarroll. And

1:05:48

like, then we're just

1:05:50

finding like everybody. People already knew

1:05:52

about this. We were like some, not that

1:05:54

we like discovered it, but we were just

1:05:56

like, what? We have to tell the world.

1:05:59

I don't know a lot of. comedians that

1:06:01

I most times I brought it up on the pot

1:06:03

a lot no one's ever been like oh yeah totally

1:06:06

yeah yeah like Mikey Day just did I was like

1:06:08

do you know Nirvana Ben show they don't people don't

1:06:10

tend to know okay well then I do feel really

1:06:12

cool so it is still cool yeah I also I

1:06:14

haven't like remember I was saying the feeling of middle

1:06:16

age is the feeling of wanting to be interested I

1:06:19

love that I'm like super interested in

1:06:21

like what Matt Johnson is making and

1:06:24

I think there's something very culty about him

1:06:26

because whenever we think we found something that

1:06:28

is uniquely funny to us that's what I

1:06:31

was we Google it yeah and there's a

1:06:33

t-shirt yeah that says like the weird there's

1:06:35

a line there's no spoiler here they get

1:06:37

addicted to coffee of coffee and at one

1:06:40

point Matt just goes hey Jay pot

1:06:42

of black and we thought

1:06:44

it was so funny to say we've been saying

1:06:48

it you type pot of black

1:06:50

into Google there's already a

1:06:52

t-shirt people are obsessed

1:06:54

but they also say a

1:06:56

thousand other ways to say coffee like

1:06:58

I know that's the joke yeah why

1:07:01

pot of black it just hit us

1:07:03

all in the exact funny bound and

1:07:05

a genderless burger experience I can't see

1:07:07

it without think whether or

1:07:09

everybody needs a bosom for a pillow

1:07:12

anyway we've said enough watch Operation Avalanche and watch on

1:07:14

YouTube you can watch quite a bit of Nirvana to

1:07:16

be in the show and I wish there was a

1:07:18

way you could buy it because I would plug that

1:07:21

yeah but anyway you can watch stuff parts of it

1:07:23

on YouTube any hoozle woozle

1:07:25

this is the story that made me

1:07:27

think that my protector made me like

1:07:29

sympathize and relate to my protector

1:07:31

which is the part of my psyche that was trying to

1:07:33

keep me safe for those of you

1:07:35

that have been confused for the

1:07:38

past six months of these podcasts there

1:07:40

isn't actually a protector he

1:07:43

looks like the video there was a video game I think

1:07:45

it was called blitz there's a there

1:07:48

was like a kind of like an NBA Jam

1:07:50

style football game it's called like I think it

1:07:52

was called blitz anyway yeah

1:07:54

that sounds familiar I really

1:07:56

only spent one day

1:07:59

hanging out out at my mom's house

1:08:01

without you guys, which will always be

1:08:03

one of the great badges of honor

1:08:05

is that like on, let's say it

1:08:07

was Friday, I'll get

1:08:09

up, I'll go to coffee with my dad, I'm very

1:08:11

proud of that. Cause like

1:08:13

that is a parenting hack. Do what

1:08:15

they like to do. Yeah. And luckily.

1:08:18

Which by the way is so fucked

1:08:20

up. Well,

1:08:22

there's actually something beautiful coming in

1:08:24

that spirit that I'm really happy I get to

1:08:27

shine a light on what an amazing parent you

1:08:29

are. Cause I am still

1:08:31

kind of going into these fight,

1:08:33

flight, freeze, fawn modes

1:08:36

and it's like, yeah, going to Dunkin Donuts

1:08:38

is the best, but I actually do enjoy

1:08:40

it. I like coffee, I like hanging with

1:08:42

my dad and seeing him with people. And

1:08:45

it is a hoot. It's like a real

1:08:47

slice of life and watching the

1:08:49

guys talk about politics and stuff. I feel like

1:08:51

a little kid in the good way. I'm sitting

1:08:53

at a table with my dad and watching them

1:08:55

talk. And so I

1:08:58

did that, you did not come. I'm

1:09:00

getting up our bodies time 4 a.m.

1:09:04

to go to this. I go. And

1:09:07

then I go to my mom's house and

1:09:09

they only asked once and this kind of speaks

1:09:12

to the like, do

1:09:14

you want things or do you want us to want things? Like,

1:09:16

do you want to hang out with us? Or do you want

1:09:18

us to want to hang out with us? I have classic kind

1:09:20

of parent co-on. Yeah. And they said, where's

1:09:22

Val and Leela? They go, are they sleeping?

1:09:24

My parents do that a lot. They'll answer the question.

1:09:27

Val and Leela are sleeping. And I go, yeah, they're

1:09:29

sleeping. You just take it. That's another survival

1:09:32

technique. Take it. Yeah,

1:09:34

they're sleeping. You weren't. You were going to the

1:09:36

Children's Museum. But which

1:09:38

brings me to the compliment. Leela

1:09:43

at one point very understandably didn't

1:09:45

want to go to another fucking

1:09:48

restaurant. As I've said a million times,

1:09:50

to hang out with my parents is to plan dinner

1:09:52

while eating lunch. That's what we're

1:09:54

doing. It's all just restaurant meals. It's

1:09:56

endless restaurants. And I know

1:09:59

maybe that sounds nice if you like

1:10:01

restaurants. I like restaurants, too many fucking

1:10:03

restaurants. It's breakfast restaurant, lunch restaurant, dinner

1:10:05

restaurant, and each one is just talking

1:10:07

about the next restaurant. It's fucking horrible. And there's only

1:10:09

like 10 approved

1:10:13

neural groove. These are the restaurants we go

1:10:15

to. So anyway, Leela was like,

1:10:17

I don't wanna go to another restaurant. And

1:10:19

you were like, you're right. Let's go to

1:10:21

a park or something. And

1:10:24

you said to her, because in

1:10:26

this family, the parents bend towards

1:10:28

the children, not the other way

1:10:30

around. And that was very emotional

1:10:32

for me to have you say that. Cause

1:10:34

I was like, our daughter was crying. Yeah.

1:10:37

And I can't say this, and it's in

1:10:39

all caps, understandably,

1:10:42

that the feeling of her was, why

1:10:45

do you keep putting me in another

1:10:47

restaurant for these like,

1:10:50

I think she can sense sort of like

1:10:52

tense, a little bit off left of center

1:10:54

meals. Yes. And you were like,

1:10:57

you're right. And then the next day we

1:10:59

were like, you're not coming to

1:11:01

lunch. I thought we're gonna go to lunch. You're gonna

1:11:03

go to the Boston's children, great kids museum. I'm

1:11:05

gonna go. One question, yeah, they're

1:11:08

sleeping. We're in the clear. I was like

1:11:10

the proudest of myself I had been that

1:11:12

day. I was like, I've done it. I've

1:11:15

taken, I'm doing this for the

1:11:17

family. Well, it was our effort,

1:11:19

both. It took both of

1:11:21

our parts to protect her.

1:11:24

And our little moment to

1:11:26

be like, I know we are

1:11:29

agreeing to enter your world, your

1:11:31

being your parents, and

1:11:34

we're bringing our child into it,

1:11:36

but we are gonna make a

1:11:38

distinction that this is not. This

1:11:40

is hot fudge you're saying, right? What you're

1:11:42

saying is hot fudge. And of these

1:11:45

patterns. And we have agency.

1:11:47

And we have agency. And just because we're here,

1:11:49

it doesn't mean we're gonna be like this. This

1:11:52

is literally, I just exhaled delicious,

1:11:55

like if I was a smoker, like smoke, like

1:11:57

I'm just like so happy with what

1:11:59

you're saying. It's the opposite of how I was

1:12:01

feeling, talking about some of the stuff in the first

1:12:03

half. The feeling of

1:12:06

like, we're here, but Val and Leela are

1:12:08

going to the Children's Museum. I'm still not

1:12:10

in a place, we were only there two

1:12:12

days basically. I wasn't gonna not spend

1:12:15

some time, but we don't have to subject,

1:12:17

subject, you guys do that. So I'm gonna go.

1:12:20

This is the story that I thought, I wrote this

1:12:22

down, because I'm planning like a little show that

1:12:25

would have characters based on my parents and inspired

1:12:28

by my parents. And then my

1:12:31

mom was like, Jay, where's

1:12:33

my coffee? Like she wants her

1:12:36

coffee from Dunkin Donuts, of course.

1:12:39

And I see it, it's in the kitchen.

1:12:41

And I'm sitting there next to her and

1:12:43

fucking cat scratching posts and all sorts of

1:12:45

ointments and stuff. And

1:12:47

I see it and I go, I can do

1:12:50

this. I was happy. This is

1:12:52

what makes all this fucking child self

1:12:54

stuff so horrible and difficult. Is there

1:12:56

these moments of hope where you

1:12:58

go like, this is appropriate. There

1:13:00

are things I won't do. I

1:13:02

won't buy champagne for all your friends, even though

1:13:04

she asked me seven times. I

1:13:07

literally said to her, I go, mom, you

1:13:09

just want me to buy it so you can

1:13:11

brag to your friends that I bought champagne for.

1:13:13

You don't actually want it. The restaurant will have

1:13:15

champagne. There will be champagne. And

1:13:17

that's not a compelling reason for me. I

1:13:19

hate it. What

1:13:21

I was really saying in that moment is, you

1:13:24

don't actually want that. You just wanna get me

1:13:26

to do something. And maybe that's valid, but it's

1:13:28

not okay for me for some reason. It's

1:13:32

not in my- Well, she's done

1:13:34

it in a thousand inappropriate ways in her whole

1:13:36

life. That's what I'm trying to say is, a

1:13:39

lot of these things, and what I'm learning about

1:13:41

trauma is, if you saw it as an isolated

1:13:43

thing, she's saying, would you please buy champagne for

1:13:45

all my friends? You go, what's so

1:13:47

bad about that? You

1:13:49

need every bit of context and you don't

1:13:51

have it. So you just fucking shut, I'm

1:13:54

talking to nobody, but just take my word

1:13:56

for it. Something's going on

1:13:58

here in the feeling realm, and I can't explain. but

1:14:00

I have this response. That's the

1:14:03

trauma slogan. That's right. And you

1:14:05

don't have to defend it to

1:14:07

anyone. It's real because it's

1:14:10

real to you. It's happening to

1:14:12

you. All of this, thank you.

1:14:14

All of that stuff is so

1:14:16

valuable. And she does see it

1:14:18

as an isolated incident. So she

1:14:20

is feeling like, I'm

1:14:22

just asking you to buy champagne. And in fact, she's

1:14:25

not even really seeing it as an, no. I'm

1:14:27

not sure about that. She's seeing it through the

1:14:29

lens of her trauma, which is can somebody be

1:14:32

always taking care of me please? Otherwise I'm gonna

1:14:34

die. And I'm not saying this to be a

1:14:36

good boy. I can see

1:14:38

that and I can have compassion for

1:14:40

that. And with, yes. But I also,

1:14:43

there's two programs running at the same

1:14:45

time and one of them is prioritized.

1:14:47

And that the prioritized program is me

1:14:50

not feeling like I'm being drowned in

1:14:52

hot water. A hundred percent. It should

1:14:54

be the prioritized. It's the actual, the

1:14:57

only program that you can have any

1:14:59

say over or change in any

1:15:01

way. That's one of the beliefs. It's

1:15:03

funny that you say that because one of the beliefs in my child's

1:15:05

self is like, it's up to me. That's,

1:15:08

that's up to you like for her

1:15:10

to fix this, to save this, to

1:15:12

save them. If this works, it's because

1:15:14

of something I did. That's right. And

1:15:16

if it's not working, it's because of something I

1:15:18

didn't do. That's right. That is probably the most.

1:15:20

I told you in therapy, I always go with

1:15:22

the horror. I'm always just saying the horror. And

1:15:26

I have seen you as your partner and I've

1:15:28

understood this because Lord knows you've seen this, you

1:15:31

know, my version of this. Like me

1:15:33

tell you like it's sad

1:15:36

that she's miserable. It is not your

1:15:38

job to fix it. You couldn't even

1:15:40

if you tried and I can feel

1:15:42

you not believe me before. And I'm

1:15:44

starting to believe it. Exactly. And my

1:15:46

brother has been really helpful in that

1:15:49

regard as well. Yeah. But

1:15:51

that's why like, so your mom, it's

1:15:53

actually kind of remarkable that

1:15:55

your mom isn't a scary person to me.

1:15:58

I think it's really hard to be. with

1:16:00

them, but like she's- But

1:16:02

I'm not frightened. Yeah, I mean, she's

1:16:04

like critical and she is one of those people

1:16:06

that you're a little bit like, are you about

1:16:08

to say something that's gonna hurt my feelings? But

1:16:11

like, it doesn't to

1:16:13

me and even like, you know, so as

1:16:16

soon as I got there, she gave me the job of like writing,

1:16:19

making place cards for the head table.

1:16:21

Which she loved. And I am, it's

1:16:24

no problem for me to do that.

1:16:26

Right. And like, and then even when

1:16:28

we get to the party, she's sitting

1:16:30

there with a martini, like quietly telling

1:16:32

me where everybody should go in this

1:16:34

frantic move while people are coming in

1:16:36

and saying like, where should I sit?

1:16:38

Wherever she's on quietly. And I'm leaning

1:16:40

in and she's saying, I

1:16:43

don't like next to her best friend, like

1:16:46

sitting next to her best friend saying, don't

1:16:48

sit here near me, she'll pull focus. And

1:16:51

then- Again, that's sort of what's funny

1:16:53

about my mom. I can see that. And so

1:16:55

I'm just, you know, holding all of these things

1:16:57

and trying to get it done. And to me,

1:17:00

that's like, I would say maybe a

1:17:02

two out of 10 stressful just

1:17:04

because I'm trying to get it

1:17:06

done. There's no, there's no wounding,

1:17:09

like no wound that that's touching because

1:17:11

I didn't have that type of mother.

1:17:14

That's not a wound for me. My mom

1:17:16

actually had that type of mother. And so

1:17:19

she, she swung the whole other way. Which

1:17:21

is where you get all the hypervigilance and the- Exactly.

1:17:23

So other things would definitely be wounding to

1:17:26

me. But when your mom, even if your

1:17:28

mom criticizes me in some way, which she

1:17:30

doesn't do that often, I

1:17:33

just am like, I don't know.

1:17:35

Like my mom seems to think

1:17:38

that I'm perfect. That's good. You

1:17:40

have a different program, right? I have a different,

1:17:42

yeah, it just doesn't get in. So that's what I mean

1:17:44

is, all of

1:17:46

these are your specific buttons

1:17:48

because she created them. So she

1:17:50

has the access to them. But

1:17:53

that's why you do this work is

1:17:55

that it slowly starts to become desensitized

1:17:57

to where you're just like, All

1:18:00

right, you, I'm gonna sit Sandy

1:18:02

wherever I want to sit. And I'm

1:18:05

gonna, and Val and Lelaire are gonna

1:18:07

go to the children's museum. Yeah. These

1:18:09

little victories. Yeah. It really is like

1:18:11

a long battle.

1:18:14

Yeah. A lot of battle, a lot of, and

1:18:16

I don't mean fights, I just mean these inner things. So anyway,

1:18:18

I go to get the coffee and

1:18:21

I'm excited that child hope, that's

1:18:23

really key, is your, I

1:18:25

remember feeling like, this is great. My

1:18:27

mom loves people to do things for

1:18:30

her. Yeah. I can

1:18:32

do this. There's a coffee, I'll go get

1:18:34

it. Yeah. Pick it

1:18:36

up. I noticed that my dad and carrying it in,

1:18:38

I don't know why, maybe the drive, there's

1:18:41

coffee all over the lid. Yeah. It's

1:18:43

like spilled. So I get a paper towel and really

1:18:46

lovingly, I'm like overly,

1:18:48

like a chef preparing a plate. Yeah.

1:18:51

I'm like wiping down the coffee. Yeah.

1:18:54

Really getting it proper. Cause I don't want her to be

1:18:56

like, it's so spilled. Which

1:18:58

would have been semi reasonable, cause it would have got on her. So

1:19:01

I clean it off and really kind of, I'm

1:19:03

milking the story, but I'm like looking forward to

1:19:06

like, I'm gonna give it to you. It's

1:19:08

gonna be all clean. And I hand it to,

1:19:10

I go up to her and she's in

1:19:12

the chair and she's texting on her phone. I

1:19:15

hand her the coffee and she looks at me with kind

1:19:17

of like a death look. And

1:19:19

she's like, what am I supposed to do with that? And

1:19:22

I go, it's your coffee. She

1:19:25

goes, what am I supposed to do with that? And

1:19:28

I'm standing there with the coffee. It's so

1:19:30

sad. I know. No, no, no.

1:19:32

I want to laugh. And I'm like, this is

1:19:35

what the trauma work is, is I'm recognizing, wow,

1:19:37

so sad. Holding the coffee

1:19:39

out. I thought you wanted your

1:19:41

coffee. And she goes, my hands

1:19:43

are full. And

1:19:46

when I told you this story, I gestured

1:19:49

one free hand. Like she had a free hand. She

1:19:52

was texting with one hand. She had a free hand.

1:19:55

It wasn't even true. It

1:19:57

wasn't true. Yeah. That.

1:19:59

is what my protector is going. There's

1:20:03

no way into this

1:20:05

territory. No. Where we'll

1:20:07

be- Terror-tory. Where the

1:20:09

soldiers will be safe. That's right. We're

1:20:11

trying to send and love soldiers. It

1:20:13

doesn't matter. There's gonna be casualties. You

1:20:16

wanna give her a coffee? I'm sorry,

1:20:18

the mission is hand

1:20:20

her a coffee? That

1:20:22

she just asked for? My

1:20:26

protector is in the war

1:20:28

room, screaming. You

1:20:30

really think it's gonna be that simple.

1:20:32

Right. You're just gonna walk in there.

1:20:34

Oh, it's just a smash and grab. Bring

1:20:37

her what she asked for. Yeah.

1:20:39

Good fucking luck. And

1:20:41

he's looking out the window. Well, this is-

1:20:43

He hates, there's no windows in the situation room, but you

1:20:45

know what I mean. This is the pain pattern. Fiskers don't

1:20:47

make sound when they start up, just so you know. It's

1:20:51

a Gambino reference. This

1:20:54

is the pain pattern, which has been

1:20:56

established probably for as long as you

1:20:58

can remember. Your

1:21:00

mom asks something of your

1:21:02

dad. You notice he's

1:21:04

not doing it. You want her to

1:21:06

be happy. You do it in

1:21:09

his place, plus some extra

1:21:11

love and care. She

1:21:13

chastises you for- Probably still

1:21:15

mad about my dad ignoring

1:21:17

her, or whatever it is. Who knows, by the

1:21:20

way? It's not my place to guess. No, I

1:21:22

don't know. I think she's mad that your dad

1:21:24

isn't the one who does it. And even further

1:21:26

back, she's mad that her father wasn't the one

1:21:28

that did it, or something. No

1:21:31

one is filling that hole, and

1:21:33

no one ever could. And

1:21:35

that's what the pain pattern is. What do you

1:21:38

want me to do with that? And in

1:21:40

that, there's another compassionate way to look at

1:21:42

this. She's asking me, can

1:21:45

you hold some of my pain? Here, I'll give

1:21:47

it to you. And the problem

1:21:49

is, no, I can't. No,

1:21:53

and you never should be asked to. And

1:21:55

I actually need something very different from you.

1:21:58

And this is why- dream

1:22:00

and the fantasy is I'm like one friend.

1:22:03

And she does have some friends, but like good

1:22:05

fertile regular relationships where you can

1:22:08

let this stuff out. Cause

1:22:10

I have friends, Joe DeRosa is my friend I call

1:22:12

and we yell and fucking get them all worked up

1:22:14

and say things we don't mean. I don't mean to

1:22:16

each other, but we rant. And

1:22:18

it's great, it's healthy, it's good. So

1:22:21

I get it, but it's just not,

1:22:24

it's like a video game. It's like that

1:22:26

kind of character can't open that kind of

1:22:28

door. You have to be a Luigi. You're

1:22:31

gonna be a Luigi. You're gonna be a Luigi

1:22:33

to get in there. Yeah, your

1:22:36

mother is so enveloped by

1:22:38

her child self. Like

1:22:41

she is her child self and

1:22:43

has been identified as that for so long.

1:22:46

And a child can't take care of

1:22:48

another child. They can only do

1:22:51

things to make sure that they are being

1:22:53

taken care of. That will be their priority

1:22:55

100% of the time. So

1:22:59

even your instinct to be like, I don't

1:23:01

want this to reach Leela. Like I don't

1:23:03

want her to feel the same way about

1:23:05

me. That's an adult

1:23:08

self protective, clear

1:23:10

perspective. That's

1:23:12

your adult self. That I can do. It's

1:23:15

not a move from the protector, no

1:23:17

disrespect protector. It's grown up Pete going

1:23:20

like, I'll keep Leela away

1:23:22

from this for some of the time and that'll

1:23:24

be good. Yeah, that's right. And then it's funny

1:23:26

even as we're talking here and all of

1:23:28

this being able to access this compassion and hopefully

1:23:31

some understanding and be even keeled about it. Again,

1:23:34

maybe this is the most obvious thing in

1:23:36

the world but another thing with trauma is

1:23:39

that I'm like, why we were

1:23:41

talking to our friend about this where I was like,

1:23:44

there's the response. Because what happened was, what I

1:23:46

said was, how can you be mad at me

1:23:48

for getting you a coffee? That's what

1:23:50

I said. And I never used to say things like that but I find

1:23:53

this need to like defend myself. Sure.

1:23:56

How is it you're mad at me? I brought you a

1:23:58

coffee. Yeah. But boy,

1:24:01

then you feel guilt. You immediately feel

1:24:03

guilt. Why couldn't I have been more

1:24:05

resourced? Why couldn't I have been more

1:24:07

patient? I'm okay now,

1:24:10

but that's just part of it is you get this flare

1:24:12

up. The next thing that happened though that I

1:24:14

thought was pretty funny was my

1:24:16

mom is like, I

1:24:19

think she might've been like, will you give me

1:24:21

a break? I'm nervous about the party. So that

1:24:23

was really nice. Yeah, there was some self-awareness there.

1:24:25

And some repair and effort. I see a lot

1:24:27

of love and effort. Okay, a

1:24:31

lot more love and effort. Always

1:24:33

love, but I'm seeing more effort. And

1:24:36

then she goes, look at that clover. No,

1:24:40

she goes, not clover. She goes, something else. Look at

1:24:43

that blah, blah, blah. Dandelions,

1:24:45

let's say. That's a weed.

1:24:47

It doesn't matter. It was another kind of flower. She goes,

1:24:49

look at those blots. And I

1:24:51

go, oh, and I look out the window because she just gestured

1:24:53

for me to look out the window. I look out the window.

1:24:56

Last year it was all clover. And I go, oh,

1:24:59

that must've been nice. And she's like, why do you say

1:25:01

that? And I'm like, I don't know. I

1:25:03

thought maybe you would prefer clover. She's like,

1:25:05

no, let's have it. And

1:25:08

then she pauses and I'm still looking at

1:25:10

the fucking whatever the fuck. And

1:25:13

she goes, hello. And

1:25:18

I look at her and she goes, I just paused

1:25:20

mid sentence and you didn't say

1:25:22

go on. Why

1:25:25

do I love you so much?

1:25:27

This was the next moment.

1:25:31

After the coffee. It was coffee. I'm

1:25:34

sorry. Good God. Look at that clover.

1:25:37

She pauses and says, I just

1:25:39

paused mid sentence. And you

1:25:41

didn't say hello. Like go

1:25:44

on. And at that point

1:25:46

I was just like, all

1:25:48

right, I'll just respond to any time you

1:25:50

pause. And we just had a nice little

1:25:52

dust up and it sucked. And

1:25:54

then we moved on. This is the

1:25:57

relationship and I don't like

1:25:59

it. We're both trying

1:26:01

for something more, but it's a

1:26:04

really weird feeling to think that

1:26:06

your healing is really inconvenient to

1:26:08

your parent. Oh yeah. But

1:26:11

they're like, I would prefer you not. Yeah,

1:26:14

but just don't be that type of parent

1:26:16

then. And understandably, people are only as conscious

1:26:19

as they can be and all of that,

1:26:21

but that's not really where

1:26:23

we're gonna put all of our empathy

1:26:25

chips. We're putting it into the child and

1:26:28

the relationship. That's what made what you said

1:26:30

in this family, we bend towards

1:26:32

the child, not the other way around. I

1:26:34

was like, that's what I'm trying to do

1:26:37

is I'm now retroactively trying to bend and

1:26:40

not explain or strategize or cope

1:26:42

with my inner child. Just

1:26:45

let him talk and say, what

1:26:47

was that like? And

1:26:49

then respond and witness it. That's exactly

1:26:51

the best thing you can do for

1:26:54

Leela because the reason why, what

1:26:57

happens is this pattern of the

1:27:00

child is expected to bend

1:27:02

towards the parent. And

1:27:05

so then the child who has way

1:27:08

more needs is way more fragile, whose

1:27:11

survival depends on the parent, never

1:27:14

gets their needs met. So then they

1:27:16

grow up and then

1:27:18

they look to their child to

1:27:20

meet their needs. Again, a person

1:27:22

who just got here, who

1:27:25

doesn't know anything about reality, except for I

1:27:27

guess I'm supposed to bend

1:27:29

and contort and take care of this

1:27:31

adult. And then they

1:27:34

grow up and their needs have

1:27:36

never been met. So what you're

1:27:38

doing is so powerful because your

1:27:40

needs weren't met as a child.

1:27:43

And you are still, you are

1:27:46

not going to put that onto Leela to

1:27:49

meet your needs. You

1:27:52

are stopping it right here and

1:27:54

saying, okay, I

1:27:56

can meet my own needs. I can

1:27:58

go in, give my child self-doubt. everything

1:28:00

he needs so that I will

1:28:03

not look externally and

1:28:06

put that burden on anyone

1:28:08

else, especially not a child of

1:28:11

all people. So

1:28:13

it's just really good and important and hard

1:28:15

work. And I'm really proud of you. I

1:28:17

think that's what every episode is. Last trauma

1:28:19

thought, but just for the people out there

1:28:21

that this is resonating, I

1:28:23

will say it's an inexhaustible need

1:28:25

to have my experience validated and

1:28:28

recognizes right on track, or

1:28:30

that's classic. I just want

1:28:32

to say, when you were like, your needs weren't met as a child,

1:28:34

I'm like, don't say that. Like

1:28:37

I get like this like fear, like, yes they were. And

1:28:41

there's some truth

1:28:44

to like these needs were met, but

1:28:48

like that's not what we're talking about. No, we're

1:28:51

not talking about that. We're not talking about that,

1:28:53

but like there's such a hesitancy. Sure. This is

1:28:55

like, I won't mention who, but somebody in one

1:28:57

of our families was like, I'd go to therapy,

1:28:59

but I don't want to open that can of

1:29:01

worms. And this is what they're talking

1:29:03

about. It's so fraught. And

1:29:06

as we've said a million times, there's

1:29:09

a reason why this is like into the

1:29:11

hero's journey. And

1:29:13

I'm, I feel

1:29:16

wonderful right now. I'm just

1:29:18

trying to offer solidarity and familiarity,

1:29:21

something relate to relate to. It's

1:29:24

like being in the woods. And

1:29:26

I meet Val in the tavern and there's, you

1:29:28

know, we have mushrooms and we eat that we're

1:29:31

in like a hand handkerchief that you, I found

1:29:33

these mushrooms and we eat them by the fire.

1:29:35

So there's, there's help. Yeah. And

1:29:39

it's really helpful to remember all the people.

1:29:42

My friend, Ken Bishop, who

1:29:45

comes up on the pot, he texts me, I think it's

1:29:47

the weekend you're going to your parents and it meant a

1:29:49

lot. He was like, I'm praying for you. We went to

1:29:51

Jersey and he was like, I'm praying for you. Matt McCarthy

1:29:54

texted me and he was like,

1:29:56

I love you. And we're in this together. I mean, like. adult

1:30:00

self gave to your child self was

1:30:03

reaching out, assembling a team

1:30:05

to prove to

1:30:07

your child self like, hey,

1:30:09

you have everything you need

1:30:11

now. You have a

1:30:13

team of people who will love and support you. I

1:30:16

think I've shared this before on the podcast, but the

1:30:19

image I will use is like,

1:30:22

I'm going into the cave, but there's

1:30:24

a series of

1:30:26

ropes tied around my waist.

1:30:29

And I have my people standing

1:30:31

outside of the cave with their hands on

1:30:34

the rope. And I can

1:30:36

tug on that rope when I'm in the

1:30:38

darkness and I'm feeling so enveloped that I

1:30:40

don't even know that I exist.

1:30:42

I am using that word a lot. And

1:30:44

like, I'll just remember to tug on the rope

1:30:46

and they'll tug back and I'll remember that I'm

1:30:48

not alone. Which is the boon in the hero's

1:30:51

journey. They're like, take this

1:30:53

ring and when you need it, you'll

1:30:55

know. Yeah, that's right. It's the friends

1:30:58

and the family and the support. Yeah,

1:31:00

you got everything you need. It's wonderful.

1:31:02

It's wonderful, wonderful stuff. Beautiful

1:31:04

stuff, trauma work, got to do it. Not

1:31:07

comfortable, but my dad made me this way. Made

1:31:11

my way this way, it's a new guy. And

1:31:14

again, we haven't seen the debates. And Trump is

1:31:16

what happens when you don't deal with this stuff,

1:31:18

so. This is what happens.

1:31:20

This is really important work. Put it down, push

1:31:23

it down, put a building up.

1:31:25

That's what I say. Feelings down,

1:31:27

buildings up, that's what I say.

1:31:29

Casino. Can

1:31:34

you think of another building? I could heal

1:31:36

or build a casino. I chose casino. And

1:31:42

you really see how like, that,

1:31:44

it's funny when there's like toxic masculine

1:31:46

men who think what they're doing is

1:31:48

brave. And you're like, you're just doing

1:31:51

any form of running. You don't have

1:31:53

the balls to open a casino. I've

1:31:58

never been more proud. to

1:32:00

not own a casino than I

1:32:02

am in this moment. That's right.

1:32:04

Because the foundation I'm digging is

1:32:07

in my very soul. That's right. And

1:32:09

the jackpot are the tears. Jackpot

1:32:12

is the tears that there pushes the dealer.

1:32:14

Do you hit on 20? No,

1:32:16

you don't. Unless you're counting cards, I

1:32:18

can't, I'm gonna ask you to leave. He's

1:32:22

like somehow reasonable about that. Okay,

1:32:25

we'll have to ask you to leave. We will ask you to

1:32:28

leave. You can keep your winnings. I always think that's funny when

1:32:30

you're caught counting cards. They

1:32:32

get to keep their winnings. Well now they

1:32:34

do six decks, I believe. So when you play blackjack

1:32:36

in a casino now, they use six decks, which means

1:32:38

no one can count cards on six

1:32:41

decks. Okay. This

1:32:43

is the sort of shit that gets me raw cards.

1:32:45

So one deck you can

1:32:47

keep track of like when

1:32:50

the likelihood of the next card being

1:32:52

a face card. Sure. What about two decks?

1:32:54

Maybe two. I think some people could probably

1:32:56

do two. Some people could do five, not six. Can't do

1:32:58

six. But what I think

1:33:00

is funny is when they catch you counting cards, because it is something,

1:33:02

it's like counting cards is

1:33:04

cheating in the same way that studying is

1:33:07

cheating on your test. I know. It's like

1:33:09

in your brain. Right. It just seems

1:33:11

like you're very good at this. Well, yeah. So

1:33:13

they can't take your winnings.

1:33:15

I see. But they can ask you

1:33:17

to leave. I see, okay.

1:33:19

Which I just think there's something, I'm

1:33:23

fascinated with those moments like that

1:33:25

break, that somehow break

1:33:27

the simulation. Yeah.

1:33:30

You're cheating, but also okay. You

1:33:33

can keep the 50 grand you won, but

1:33:35

also don't do that here anymore. Yeah.

1:33:38

And it's not even, yeah. It's like you're

1:33:40

not cheating, but you're not playing it the

1:33:42

way that we wanted you to play. You're not losing the way

1:33:44

you want. We actually want you to

1:33:46

lose. That's how we pay for everything. It's

1:33:49

your losses. The buffet, eat your

1:33:51

losses. That's what it is. Okay.

1:33:56

Well, this is luck. Who knows how

1:33:58

the debate is gonna go, so. or

1:34:00

went. It's so interesting to me. So nice to

1:34:02

get this impression out. Yeah. In case it's

1:34:04

so horrible that we don't do it anymore. No

1:34:08

chance. I mean, how much, it's

1:34:10

just more of the same terribleness.

1:34:13

Yeah, I know. All right, cool

1:34:15

guys. Hey,

1:34:17

it's summer. Jump into

1:34:20

a pool. Have a popsicle. Yeah.

1:34:23

I will be making red lentils. Yeah, your

1:34:25

sick soup. And sipping on

1:34:27

tea. Sipping on tea and soup.

1:34:32

But you guys go ahead and get

1:34:35

in the sun and keep it crispy.