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Slows. mintmobile.com. Hello

1:29

and welcome to You the radio for

1:32

comedy podc history seriously. My

1:34

nai I'm a public historian, a

1:37

and today we are packing and

1:39

protractors and hoppi bus back

1:42

to ancient Greece with

1:44

Mr Triangle himself us

1:49

square our hypotenuse is

1:51

we have two very speci She's

1:54

professor of classi and a fellow

1:56

of the British is class

1:58

ethnicity and ge is

2:01

an expert on ancient Greek theatre and philosophy.

2:03

You might have read one of her many

2:05

excellent books or heard on any number of

2:07

brilliant Radio 4 programmes, including, Natalie Haynes stands

2:10

up for the classics and great lives, it's

2:12

Professor Edith Hall. Welcome, Edith. I'm absolutely thrilled

2:14

to be here to triangulate with you two.

2:17

Oh, a lovely joke. Look at that. There's

2:19

a lot of beautiful triangle puns I'm not going

2:21

to be able to keep up with here. I'm

2:23

going to have to decide what my angle is

2:25

on this early. Look, I tried. I've

2:27

not born a dad. I just have to try

2:30

to earn that level. Honor of

2:32

a dad pun. Yes. All

2:34

right. Well, we've given away a little bit there,

2:36

but in comedy corner, she barely needs an introduction.

2:38

She's a comedian, actor and writer. You've seen her

2:40

all over the telly on Taskmaster, Frankie Boyle's New

2:42

World Order, The Horn section, New Game and Sandman.

2:44

You'll know her from any number of podcasts, including

2:46

our own. She's your Dead to

2:48

Me royalty. It's Desiree Birch. Welcome back, Desiree.

2:51

Oh, it's such a pleasure to be here. This is where I

2:53

get all of my learning done right. So

2:55

thank you guys for inviting me back so I can

2:57

understand the man behind the mask, or I

3:00

guess the one mask. It was mostly just the one.

3:02

So what do you know? We're

3:12

going to have a good one. We're going to have a lovely lesson

3:14

at home. You might know about today's subject, and I'm going

3:16

to bet most of you know Pythagoras as a

3:18

man. We all have to memorize his theorem

3:20

about triangles in school. So come with me

3:23

now. A squared plus B squared. No. A

3:25

squared plus B squared equals C squared. But

3:27

what about his actual life story? That's a

3:29

lot less well known than any Pythagoras movies.

3:32

Well, he does feature in

3:34

Assassin's Creed Odyssey as one of the

3:36

drivers of the story to make you

3:38

go on a quest to fight. And it's

3:40

Spidegoras, I guess. I don't know. My

3:42

boyfriend's Cypriot, and he's like, you're still saying

3:44

it wrong. And no matter how many times I try to

3:46

evolve it, he's like, no, it's still wrong. But anyway, he

3:49

did help me go on a quest to find out

3:51

theorems. I don't know. I just enjoy playing the video

3:53

game. That's the other thing I know about. That's

3:56

our first ever intervention in these, so what do

3:58

you know? Which I Like.. Sean A

4:00

fact checking the comedian in this I would you

4:02

know grade excellent Mud under the right. you're right

4:04

he isn't a game although category of the know

4:07

how to pronounce it mean the expert in the

4:09

room this I go to us is pretty good

4:11

faith ago and either Iacocca you are I'm just

4:13

going to do it with epic be the gotten

4:15

that I do that had it is the fact

4:17

that I said the key question for today's who

4:19

the man behind the triangles what were his big

4:21

philosophical ideas is is have lots of the two

4:24

and one's the so obsessed with beams. My

4:27

boyfriends also of says would be if that's

4:29

a strange as it know that that's mediterranean

4:31

I mean my were friend loves I'll be

4:34

surprised with the same reason but ah ha

4:36

ha that's not the focus then when and

4:38

when with the got us as when I

4:40

decided to call them where was he born.

4:43

Okay so let's imagine that

4:45

were in the eastern A

4:47

did see off the south

4:49

west. Corner of what's now.

4:51

Thirty were ensued. Cultural com sat

4:53

with everything. In Eastern Mediterranean

4:55

were very cosmopolitan environment razzing.

4:58

Paths Heat Island. Of samples

5:00

it's not now held to be one of the

5:02

great party on and but it was. Then had

5:04

amazing sis house still the most

5:06

amazing line and this little boys

5:09

born may be about flight seven

5:11

see that we can't be absolutely

5:13

exact. That's exactly the point in

5:15

time when what they called the

5:17

Ionian philosophers because that's true it

5:19

of lesson circus good idea when

5:21

fancy philosophy that were inventing rational

5:23

medicines them ready physics that we

5:25

did all kinds of things whether

5:27

trying to understandable without God in

5:29

at the very first time without

5:31

very little about his childhood. He

5:34

certainly traveled around possibly to eat zips.

5:36

He did go back to some. Was

5:38

got into some kind of political trouble

5:40

and then went off to Crotona which

5:43

was in Greek Southern Italy. Southern Italy

5:45

been colonized by the Greeks is on

5:47

the tell. His boots. And die He

5:49

sets up what ever we all to make office

5:52

and a suffer The school. And he dies

5:54

in for a Cbc which is sort of a

5:56

classic year in Greek history cassettes, the era of

5:58

in a Big Battles I Law. Yeah

6:00

or eighty bc. The Persians the being right

6:03

hectares of Greece I had a marathoner Salameh

6:05

switch with on upset about i. Doubt if

6:07

he lived that long as I got gives

6:09

the ninety years on the H Had a

6:11

great thing about on seventy is somebody with

6:13

quite a heroic. Figure they often planes. He'd

6:15

lived pretty nicely long attacked by very

6:17

much doubt se with either born other

6:19

least seventy one of all the wait

6:21

for eighty? Okay, so living for nine.

6:23

Years at that point in history was not

6:25

a thing that people were once deal I

6:28

see some did. Weirdly it seeks avoids has

6:30

like twenty five. Csf. yeah I might blame

6:32

it on the weight in Alabama about it and

6:34

make a twenty four now unless they collect citizens

6:36

about all the very very old man so we

6:39

will. We killed him off For a city that

6:41

he acts of episodes already done I guess I

6:43

just go home now. I was like no actually

6:45

really we gonna start again. This. Is

6:48

a kind of cultural history of

6:50

an idea of a man. So

6:52

what do we know? There are

6:54

two surviving serious substantial for the

6:56

biographies of him on that by

6:58

people who were and much much

7:00

much later antiquities that of Roman

7:02

empire period Greek philosophers who were.

7:04

Really Platonists, they were really into played

7:07

sites because Plato took a lot of

7:09

his ideas from. Pythagoras. Says

7:11

I wrote to but we'll see how much will

7:13

scurrilous. One is a very concise and one

7:15

bloodstock could buy your deniers layer T which

7:17

is is full of that the symbol things

7:19

about sex and and parties and that kind

7:21

of sake of stuff yada. I was at

7:24

their Sex and Parties and guys as if

7:26

it's not just about Mathiesen people and. Was

7:28

a wait. What are people basing their

7:30

biographies on? If there's nobody who at

7:32

the time was writing about him or

7:34

the records were no longer fact like

7:36

how to write about their fee based

7:38

on like. oh my grandpa one so

7:40

me the story about because. People would

7:42

generating stories very soon after his

7:45

death. So even during his lifetime,

7:47

there's another poet. Cool Denilson these

7:49

his is removed because of the

7:51

volleyball rights but also the comic

7:53

theatre is everything and you're relate

7:55

to this. So there were lots

7:58

of comedies about. That. Man, the most

8:00

of us can a profound. Them. and have really funny

8:02

we haven't got any about By Sockets what

8:04

we know they existed. Lots of

8:06

funny stories are as about and

8:08

especially consists theory of my tenth

8:10

psychosis which is that when you

8:13

die you your soul leaves and

8:15

is reborn into another body which

8:17

reminds people lot of have some

8:19

ideas and hinduism and reincarnation so.

8:21

That particular aspect of whatever went on

8:24

a his very mysterious cult sex with

8:26

a Way to sit with him to

8:28

about attracted lots of very weird. Stories

8:30

minister with the midst of his birth do? I

8:32

guess you've his dad may have been Deseret. Said.

8:34

seen of his school now I'm certain supposed to

8:37

add was like are I don't I feel. Like

8:39

it's always like he was a poor farmer

8:41

or. Poor some savings and that's why

8:43

the kid didn't go so far to

8:46

like over compensate be likes. I've created

8:48

mass or something. so I'm I'm guessing

8:50

his father was a poor workers some

8:53

kind of sun god see, wait, what's

8:55

assess assess. Certain.

8:57

Ah, Apollo. gotta the sun? Oh

8:59

okay, yep. what? Miss that one

9:02

from a buyout Country Mile Cbs

9:04

This hills may be slightly untrue,

9:06

but. What not? So he was the

9:08

son of a salesman called Money Saw Cove.

9:10

Which is just selling culminated nicknames.

9:13

Or he might have been a

9:15

gem engraver or somebody who both

9:17

in great unfolds and semi tequila

9:19

bourgeoisie. Yeah he has a story

9:21

arose his mom and dad. When

9:23

she wanted they wanted a baby had gone off

9:25

the Pacino recall asked about having a baby says

9:28

and myths start. Fuck the so many myths about

9:30

people by having it and how release of both.

9:32

Zeus is it sad and he stole a blow

9:34

to stamps and at that episode he could have

9:36

seen as a bartender he could actually tab. So

9:39

we have the story but Pythagoras one is born

9:41

in. This is a prophecy that your wife will

9:43

give birth to a child that is was a

9:45

pass or humans in all time and beauty and

9:47

in wisdom is me Hot You can be wise,

9:50

you can be small is that can be perfect

9:52

right? Well. and fact that one of the

9:54

more respectable sources as a chuckle decline office

9:56

who was the scene of our still flaminio

9:58

the sit series a lot of And

10:00

he said that he was remarkable for his good looks,

10:02

because we all know that most geeky people,

10:05

most philosophers, you know, I have

10:07

to say that most of my colleagues in philosophy

10:09

are not what I would call a hottie. He

10:12

can't, he's a bear

10:14

foddy. He can't, I can

10:17

tell he was very tall of noble stature. His

10:19

voice, his character and every other aspect were marked

10:21

by an exceptional degree of charm and embellishment. He

10:23

always wore white. He had a golden thigh. They

10:25

say he had a golden thigh, it's all a

10:27

bit soft. Was that just a trick for him to

10:29

show people? I mean, because if you

10:32

want to see my thigh, I've got to pull

10:34

down these trousers under my tunic and made you

10:36

look. Very, very interesting. Golden

10:38

thigh is my favourite Bond theme.

10:41

It's the Tina Turner. Yep, golden

10:43

thigh. That's his weakness, yes. But

10:46

I'm just trying to find a way through what we know about

10:48

his life and what we know after his life. We

10:50

do think he travels. And we

10:53

think he's travelling to two major

10:55

cultures, the Persian world, the Egyptian

10:57

world. Absolutely. All the ancient

10:59

commentators and biographers come out with this. Even

11:02

then, I have to say this is a normal thing that

11:04

they do, that they're writing about any of their sages, that

11:06

they have to go off to their trips to

11:08

Egypt and their trips to Persia. But

11:10

he will definitely, if you're born in Samos,

11:12

you absolutely will have gone to the

11:15

Persian mainland. And if you're

11:17

interested in maths or geometry, you

11:20

will definitely have gone to Egypt. Even

11:22

some rumours, some people have said that he

11:24

was actually North African. Oh yeah, that's

11:26

what I heard from Ms. Zuri Neale Hurston

11:29

show that she was saying that Pythagoras

11:31

was African, of African descent. Well,

11:33

it's possible. So, Farlis, who's the

11:36

first real philosopher, scientist from the

11:38

same kind of time, he was

11:41

half Phoenician. Now, that means he's from

11:43

the Levant, which means he may have

11:45

been very Lebanese. There's lots and lots of

11:47

interchange between the Levant and Egypt and all

11:50

the rest of it. We

11:52

Never know exactly what colour anybody was

11:54

in the ancient Eastern Mediterranean. That is

11:56

the honest truth. Depends on the time

11:58

of year. I've

12:00

written. About

12:03

I think is is a brilliant example

12:05

of the way that the ancient Greeks

12:07

with a conduit thought that wasn't Greek

12:10

miracle, that was a nice and Mediterranean

12:12

a North African miracle. But it came

12:14

through mainly through the text of the

12:16

Greeks. they tended to meet more people.

12:19

yeah, they got to be the ones.

12:21

He said these are our ideas raw

12:23

because. We've. Collected them and we put them down

12:25

to given to use of our you've got it

12:27

That's can be the beginning of that. Idea. Ssssss

12:30

okay understood so he's having a wonderful

12:33

gap year in particular that laugh at

12:35

and people back I'm like oh did

12:37

you go find to sell both agree

12:39

as exactly I come back wearing white

12:42

being like I am a golden fast

12:44

that assess not just a triangle know

12:46

not just a mystic philosopher not justice

12:49

of esoteric golden fides one the beast

12:51

with tiger abs because we said he

12:53

thought affects us reddit. He's a.

12:56

He's also a sports instructor. So they

12:58

say what's on tap he wasn't. Going.

13:01

To. Guess who he's not? He may be training.

13:03

Wait, who A Cz training? Same as people

13:05

I see training. Same as at like Olympians

13:08

it is. I don't know any famous Olympians

13:10

because marathon was an Olympian. He's just a

13:12

guy who ran and died. I don't know

13:14

the name of Same as None and limping

13:16

is he took up. The important is that

13:18

he shouted a very. Small man called

13:20

your remedies okay arms. He

13:22

chose him so that once he trying to

13:24

me than be all the bigger guys is

13:27

a line or messy of ancient athletic. Ring

13:29

as a small. Men everywhere comply with.

13:31

The little guy is a little guy

13:33

who beat saw all these enormous guys

13:35

and I'm sure he did that to

13:38

matter and which sports like which events

13:40

well more the oldest standards track and

13:42

field of have club.i can. It's not

13:44

as weird as it looks because Socrates

13:46

always going off to the police to

13:48

to the gymnasium to to it's a

13:50

handsome young philosophers who just finished working

13:53

out. Because he was. Yeah, they really thought

13:55

that you could only think properly if you cut

13:57

your body Weldon, so he's necessity as well. So.

14:00

I think we mean he's stripping himself of all

14:02

the kind of good things in life. He's

14:04

punishing himself almost. Well, he's trying to control

14:06

his physical desire. That is also,

14:08

though, just an exaggeration of a continuing

14:10

strand in ancient philosophy, that

14:13

if you were going to devote yourself to thinking

14:15

about the good life, and I mean the virtuous

14:17

life, and all the rest of it, then you

14:19

do not want to be that drunk, siberite,

14:22

siber... It is absolutely... where

14:24

they did nothing but feast and have sex all

14:27

day and every day. Sounds awful.

14:29

Yeah, terrible. Definitely want to do that

14:31

for your own moral well-being. Some

14:33

sources say that he told the athletes to eat

14:36

lots of meat and stop eating figs, but

14:38

more sources say that he was actually the

14:40

first really true vegetarian. He

14:42

absolutely bored the shedding of blood,

14:44

either in violence between humans or

14:47

against animals, and that he wanted

14:49

people to be vegetarians. And

14:51

the thing that ultimately we do not

14:53

know, but the idea is that he

14:55

travels to Kratona in southern Italy, either

14:57

to escape from a tyrant or to

15:00

become a tyrant. And I love

15:02

how those two things are oppositional, and yet

15:04

somehow they sort of make sense. They could

15:06

really easily be true. It was the age

15:08

of tyrants. The cities outside mainland Greece were

15:10

almost all tyrannies. In fact, all of the

15:12

ones in mainland Greece, the age of tyrants is

15:14

exactly what it is. They had replaced hereditary

15:17

kings. And so you've got a

15:19

new thing where the smartest richest guy in the

15:21

city could just sort of tell everybody to

15:23

bring him in on a wave of popular support,

15:25

and then he could get really nasty afterwards. So

15:28

it's personally possible that he stood up to somebody

15:30

trying to do that in his island, but

15:33

had absolutely every intention of doing exactly that

15:35

himself when he got to Italy. Perfectly possible. So

15:38

when he went to Italy, he was also

15:40

escaping, escaping a tyrant to become a tyrant,

15:42

but he was fleeing. He wasn't just

15:44

like, oh, let me go and check it

15:46

out over here. I think that's likely. OK, OK. And

15:49

escaping a tyrant means escaping certain and unpleasant deaths.

15:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you can't

15:55

just keep you around and be like, boom, for shame. It's

15:57

like no public hanging. So we've

15:59

got possibly... theory, who's one of his biographers

16:01

tells us things go a bit

16:03

wrong. Pythagoras gets into political trouble. Pythagoras,

16:05

one of his students is called Kylon. Kylon

16:08

realises that he's actually aiming at political power as

16:10

well as just being the top brain in the

16:12

room. He wants to be the top man in

16:14

the room and he resists

16:16

him and then there's a

16:18

lot of fighting and Pythagoras, who's actually I

16:20

think probably quite a coward, goes and hides

16:23

in a temple of the Muses because the

16:25

Muses are in charge not just of music

16:27

and he was very interested in music but

16:29

actually of maths and astronomy and all that

16:31

kind of thing and he either dies

16:33

there because he doesn't eat for 40 days or Kylon

16:39

sets fire to the temple and

16:41

burns him out or he dies

16:43

by suicide later on. It's all

16:45

very very unclear what exactly happened.

16:47

Either of those two stories seems to be a

16:50

bit difficult if you're 90. Yeah you're right.

16:52

We have to revise down the age properly.

16:54

Because you can't get chased anywhere. There's

16:57

another story that he didn't actually run into some of the Muses

16:59

but he ran into a field of beans. We'll get to

17:02

that. This is a crucial bean fact

17:05

we'll come to. I want to

17:07

come back to Kylon though because there is an

17:09

element of the story where Kylon wants

17:11

to be tutored by Pythagoras and Pythagoras

17:14

rejects him. Oh this is going in

17:16

the film! You

17:18

can't have any ancient Greek story without

17:20

at least one revenge motif. I mean

17:23

it had to go

17:25

in. Someone's got to feel vengeful if

17:27

it's a Greek story. Pythagoras is

17:29

killed by Kylon and his men,

17:31

either burned alive, died by suicide,

17:33

starved to death in a temple

17:36

or bean related death. Pythagoras

17:39

is the original Mr Bean. Just

17:41

as funny. Not silent

17:43

enough. Do you

17:45

want to guess how the beans end up

17:47

killing him or being responsible

17:49

for Pythagoras' death in this story?

17:51

Okay because we mentioned the beans

17:53

before. Does he like beans because

17:55

he's a vegetarian or not like

17:57

beans? because

18:01

of reasons that would befit Pythagoras,

18:03

you know. Well, do you remember

18:06

Edith mentioned Metempsychosis earlier? Wait,

18:08

was that to do with the reincarnation? It was. Metempsychosis,

18:12

okay. Metempsychosis literally

18:14

just means movement of the soul, transition of the soul

18:16

from one thing to another. So did he think that

18:18

beans had a soul? He may have done. But

18:21

why only beans? Like, why don't

18:23

cabbages have a soul? That's a very good

18:25

question. They all say, you know, pomegranates.

18:32

The story goes that he's been chased by Kylon's

18:34

mem and he gets to a bean field and

18:36

he stops running because he doesn't want to trample

18:38

the beans because he believes they're the souls of

18:40

his dead friends, reincarnated as beans. So

18:43

the, oh, okay. So he doesn't want to eat them

18:45

because the beans are people. Yeah, he doesn't want to

18:47

trample them. It's not even eating. He doesn't want to

18:50

run through them. Couldn't he run around them? Where was

18:52

the field? Surely

18:55

it had a boundary around the field. Couldn't he have

18:57

been like, I'll just make a sharp left and run

18:59

that way. Edith, can we talk

19:01

about Pythagoras, the philosopher, in terms of

19:04

proper philosophy? And I guess the problem for us is

19:06

he doesn't really write anything down in

19:08

his lifetime. So we're reliant on the people

19:10

who come after. The comedians. The comedians. Tell your

19:12

story. Everyone write your life story now. Do not

19:14

leave it to us. We will through it up.

19:17

Oh, if that's the right, we'll ruin you. Yeah,

19:19

absolutely. Just because it's hilarious. What

19:21

do we know of his philosophical position, other

19:23

than a metempsychosis, I guess, which is his

19:25

big thing? Yes. But the metempsychosis

19:27

rests on something bigger, which is the dualism

19:29

of soul and body. This is

19:31

a very specific idea that the body

19:33

is material and absolutely corrupt and not very

19:36

interesting. And that's why you have to sit

19:38

on your desires because they're animal. What makes

19:40

humans different is that we've got this soul.

19:43

The body is a prison. This

19:45

is why the Platonists, the Neoplatonists,

19:47

is Christian's light so much. This

19:50

whole idea that there is a soul separate

19:52

from the body and that actually everything physical is

19:54

not particularly nice. The other big thing

19:56

is that he was deep into music and math. And

19:58

actually, I think some of his ideas. that were incredibly important,

20:01

that we don't fully understand them.

20:03

So it wasn't just geometry. He

20:05

worked out these business about perfect force

20:07

and perfect finish and optics and realised

20:10

that there's something musical about

20:12

mathematical harmony. We know this from

20:14

other ancient mathematicians and everything. He

20:16

did make some big propositions

20:18

that were really important. It's just we're not

20:21

quite sure what. So he was

20:23

a super, super wicked heart, totally

20:25

shredded like cult leader, golden

20:28

crown, golden thigh, playing a guitar because

20:30

he's into music and math. Desiree, do

20:33

you remember what Pythagoras' theorem is for triangles?

20:35

It's a squared plus b squared equals c

20:37

squared as a right triangle. Some

20:39

of the squares of the two sides is equal to the

20:41

square of the hypotenuse. Yeah, very good. Yeah,

20:43

a GCC math textbook there for you. So

20:47

obvious question, do you know who invented Pythagoras'

20:49

theorem? Oh, well, I'm guessing based

20:51

on the question, probably not. I mean, I don't

20:53

know. I'm guessing some Egyptians or Persians

20:56

where he went to go study it.

20:58

And then he, like other Greeks, I

21:00

invented this because you don't know those people.

21:02

So I, yeah, you're right.

21:05

The Babylonians as far as we can tell

21:07

the Babylonians, they were the ones who were there before

21:09

the Persians. Yeah. By the really, really old

21:11

ones. This was worked out pretty early

21:13

on when humans started building. Yeah. It's something you

21:15

needed to do if you're going to be a

21:18

good stone. I mean, Egypt

21:20

figured out the, you know, pyramids and

21:22

other things based on that. It's pretty

21:24

triangular. Yes, exactly. And I'm sure they

21:26

weren't the first to maybe be building in that way.

21:28

So I guess this is old news. So,

21:30

okay. So yeah, so we've definitely

21:32

got evidence of Pythagorean ideas in

21:34

pre-Pythagoras by several centuries back with

21:37

the, at least the Babylonians. So

21:39

obvious question then, Edith, is he an

21:41

absolute plagiarist and chancellor or

21:44

should we take Pythagoras seriously as someone

21:46

who perfected ideas? I'd go further. I

21:48

would say that he actually could, we

21:50

could call him the father of geometry

21:53

and that not because he was the first

21:55

to do it, but because he's the first

21:57

to make it a separate study of area of science

22:00

before you could discipline is he pre-uco yeah

22:02

way way way way way right yeah hundreds

22:04

of years so I think he turns it

22:06

into a distinct area study and

22:09

promulgates different theories including this doesn't really

22:11

matter where he got it from if

22:13

he's sort of founding the discipline okay

22:16

well I think we're back on board with Pythagoras

22:18

there was a spell where we were thinking this

22:20

guy sounds like an absolute fraud but actually I

22:22

think we're back we're back on I go ask

22:24

Desiree what would you want to be reincarnated as

22:26

I mean even if people are gonna pee on

22:29

me and that's a bad way to start and

22:31

teenagers are gonna carve their names into me I

22:33

would like to be Korean incarnated as a tree

22:35

and they would be cool to be in a

22:37

place to provide shade and to be

22:39

a place where people gather and to witness a

22:41

lot of things happen over because they

22:43

live for a long time like I remember going to

22:45

see Sequoia as an American I'm like all of these

22:48

trees are older than our whole concept of being

22:50

a nation yeah and they've seen it all come

22:52

and go and that's kind of amazing beautiful yeah

22:54

oh yeah I shouldn't have started with even if

22:56

people pee on me but you know that is

22:58

a consequence of being a tree is people are

23:00

gonna do stuff I thought you were to say

23:02

a bus shelter that's

23:04

where most of the peeing happens in my community so

23:06

Edith we've got Pythagoras the cult leader

23:13

do we know what's happening in the

23:15

cult like you said mystical you said

23:17

religious you said philosophical are their rules

23:20

are their initiation ceremonies do you have to

23:22

give them all your money and renounce all

23:24

of your family and friends and

23:26

drink any flavor and sleep with Pythagoras

23:28

well it's interesting

23:32

that he did say goods should be

23:34

held in common now it's more attractive

23:36

to say goods should be held in

23:39

common good should be held in my

23:41

house if

23:43

you haven't got any you have more

23:45

to gain than if you have a

23:47

lot yes yeah that was certainly catacombs

23:49

chanting people would over here some in

23:52

The semi-circle chanting. He discovered the mathematical

23:55

genius inside of music. Of course, it's

23:57

gonna be chanting. Yeah, yeah. an acoustic.

24:00

The public for me knows bike is

24:02

as say they pro he probably thought

24:04

mosque by question and answer to his

24:06

to as far as three and sir

24:08

yes sir gotta wait sex and assess

24:10

assess as sarah on the road say

24:12

get have to get the right way

24:14

or another be laughed at night area

24:17

say. That they weren't allowed

24:19

to cut their finger and toenails during

24:21

sacred time. In case.

24:25

The whole other thing. Take your

24:27

eyes. Like I said, this is

24:29

weird. corpse looking know fingers and

24:32

toenails, I mean lox, you kept

24:34

toenails that long it hurts I've been

24:36

stabbed. By my boyfriends toenails for and I

24:38

was ready to throw him out of the let's

24:40

see Pythagoras now. He just doesn't because he just

24:42

doesn't look at his toenails. Until

24:45

I go out, it's a bit much. They

24:47

weren't allowed to kill insects. Which. Is real

24:49

problem in in in the southern Indiana

24:52

of a silly i'm not overly says

24:54

exactly. They went to

24:56

France kill anything on what it sounded. They

24:58

all have to put their hands on the

25:00

grounds again. What? Ninety in an. Absolute

25:03

on earth themselves from the lightning or was.

25:05

He in the Blade as insights about lesson

25:07

are still funny that Salinas and an interest

25:10

in insects apparently. Lined like that, leads

25:12

from big clumps. assess, assess, state

25:14

you have a lot of things,

25:16

which is what an awful lot

25:18

of scholars think. This is more

25:20

of a religious sects than a

25:22

college. Or you can be both

25:24

what Wilde Rides or Cyprus born

25:27

in some off. Probably

25:29

live? Maybe not. He has had

25:31

Renault's been a school called the

25:33

Semi Circle. Maybe maybe have superpowers?

25:35

Probably not. Maybe was a tyrant

25:38

May be flooded tyrants. Probably.

25:40

To do music and maps and

25:42

philosophy and was important believed Msm

25:45

Psychosis the transmission of souls into

25:47

other bodies. And. Then

25:49

died in the hilarious been injury. Possibly

25:52

definitely my favorite store if of a sitter.

25:55

I'm an incredible life although not all of

25:57

it probably true, but week we have he

25:59

the legs. On

26:08

the highway every and I chanted semi

26:10

circle to listen closely or Edith A

26:12

teaches us something that we need to

26:15

know from the stage of the semi

26:17

circle. So my stopwatches ready. Professor Eat!

26:19

If you have two minutes, take it

26:21

away please. Many people in history both

26:24

ancient history and more recently have claimed

26:26

to be a reincarnation of Pythagoras himself.

26:28

They have all kinds of motors so

26:30

that sometimes running colts. Different

26:35

motivations In the Eighteenth century

26:37

my very favorite claimed reincarnations

26:39

at place. So if you

26:41

go to a pub in

26:43

North Hampton Inn about seventeen

26:46

eighteen, you could see the

26:48

learned English. Dog. Who

26:50

was a reincarnation of Pythagoras? Do

26:52

lots? Of tricks to so her intelligence.

26:54

She was a border collie. We've

26:57

got a wonderful pets or which was actually

26:59

off the upset that they stuck outside the

27:02

pump someone she traveled all around the midlands.

27:04

Shampoo sets of some pack of cards with

27:06

numbers and letters on C could with her

27:09

snouts and bell pie Sakara went off to.

27:11

she was she would put the cards down

27:13

and say. Pythagoras. She

27:15

could do mass right agenda she could

27:17

do discretion i put the news or

27:19

whatever, but she could do simple arithmetic

27:21

it fast. Two plus two she

27:24

would push for towards you. Said.

27:26

Is some cleverness underlying a very,

27:28

very simple public statements Thought this

27:30

was also quite subversive in it's

27:32

own way. This is the British

27:35

working class law thing of the

27:37

fact that plastic. Greek

27:39

philosophy is the early education.

27:42

So it's a it's a beautiful combination

27:44

but I would very much liked as

27:46

Met the learned English dub especially The

27:48

Heat's As Shots. He started a career.

27:51

because of a single the learned

27:53

french dog and all the learned

27:55

french don't could do with speak

27:57

french see completely trump zen by

27:59

being reincarnation So let's all get

28:01

to Northampton next Saturday night and ask them

28:03

to ring Connie to learn

28:06

a Dignish dog. I

28:08

hope her soul has not departed that pub even

28:11

though her body has done. I'd just like to

28:13

say a huge thank you to our guests in

28:15

History Corner. We had the fantastic Professor Edith Hall

28:17

from the University of Durham. Thank you Edith. Thank

28:20

you so much. Hi letter. What

28:22

does that mean? It's a sort of ancient Greek greeting

28:25

really, you guys. That

28:27

was nice, isn't it? Pretty cool. And

28:29

in Comedy Corner we have the delightful Desiree

28:31

Birch. Thank you Desiree. Oh thank you

28:33

Greg. I love being on the show so much.

28:35

It's an absolute favourite. It's an honour to be

28:37

here. And to you lovely listener, join me next

28:39

time as we separate myth from truth for another

28:41

historical subject. But for now, I must have gone

28:43

warn people that eating baked beans is basically cannibalism.

28:46

You're eating souls on toast.

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