0:05

Hey there everybody . This is Fred Kranz from St

0:07

Onge here today with another episode

0:09

of Taking the Supply Chain Pulse . Today

0:12

we're fortunate to have Eric Trich from

0:15

the University of Chicago Medicine and

0:17

a 2015 Future

0:19

Famer Award winner from the Bellwether

0:22

League , the National Healthcare Supply

0:24

Chain Hall of Fame . Eric

0:26

, thanks for joining us .

0:29

Yeah , Fred , great to be here and happy to spend

0:31

some time and chat here a little

0:33

bit .

0:34

Well , today it's 90

0:36

degrees here in Cleveland . What's

0:39

the weather like in Chicago ?

0:42

I think we're feeling the heat dome , heat

0:44

wave effects as well and , uh

0:46

, you know , it certainly impacts

0:48

us . Uh , we see things kind

0:50

of spike in terms of our , our ED

0:53

and trauma volumes on days like this

0:55

too . So it impacts us in multiple

0:57

ways , but uh , we'll get through

0:59

it .

1:00

Yeah , we'll , we'll get to that . Uh , you

1:03

guys have a unique situation your

1:05

inner city centered

1:07

organization and we'll talk

1:10

about that later . But tell us so you

1:12

know . Start everything off by telling

1:14

us about yourself , your background and you

1:17

know how you got to where you are today .

1:19

Yeah , happy to . So currently

1:22

my role here I've been with UChicago

1:24

Medicine for about 13 years actually

1:26

. My current role is the Senior Vice

1:28

President of Supply Chain and Support Services

1:30

and Chief Supply Chain Officer . And

1:33

I'll kind of start at the beginning

1:36

and sort of tell you how I got

1:38

to U of C and in my

1:40

current role . But you know background

1:43

grew up in Western Pennsylvania

1:45

, near Pittsburgh , a town called Butler , pennsylvania

1:47

, and out of high school

1:50

landed at Michigan State University

1:52

. Initially thought I wanted to

1:54

be a computer engineer , but a few

1:56

years into that path , you know

1:58

, realized I wanted to learn more about business

2:01

and entrepreneurship and learned

2:05

about supply chain at Michigan State and

2:07

their program and they've had a really strong program

2:09

, and so I was fortunate to be

2:11

able to pivot into an undergraduate

2:14

degree that combined engineering

2:16

and supply chain there , and so that

2:19

ended up being a really great mix

2:21

for me to blend those two

2:24

and get an engineering degree but get some of

2:26

that supply chain know-how coming

2:28

out of Michigan State . My

2:30

first kind of full-time job

2:32

out of school was

2:35

with a manufacturing company in the Minneapolis

2:37

area , so not in healthcare , but

2:40

an industrial manufacturing company called

2:42

Graco and they pumps and paint

2:44

spraying equipment , and

2:46

you know it was a midsize public company

2:49

got to learn a lot about manufacturing

2:51

, about lean processes , about

2:54

global manufacturing , supplier relationship

2:57

management , got to spend some time in

2:59

Asia and learn

3:01

sort of about the global supply chain and

3:03

some of the things that we were doing there . So it was a great experience

3:06

for me . But

3:08

both I think you know after a stint

3:10

there , both because you know I

3:12

didn't at the end of the day , feel incredibly

3:14

connected to the products and the dynamics

3:17

of a public company and sort of

3:19

meeting the challenges around

3:21

monthly returns , shareholder returns

3:23

and stock prices the challenges around monthly return , shareholder

3:26

returns and stock prices . Also , it was a little far from home

3:28

for me and my wife

3:30

, who I had met at Michigan State , was

3:37

from the Michigan area . So we looked to move to the Chicago area

3:39

and we've been in Chicago or the Chicago suburbs for 15

3:42

or so years a little longer . First

3:46

moved and took a job in consulting

3:48

again outside of healthcare , was doing

3:50

work in strategic

3:53

sourcing for Fortune 500 companies

3:55

and traveling quite a bit and seeing

3:57

how different organizations operated

3:59

and spent some time learning

4:01

about you know what it takes to

4:03

be a consultant and how to present yourself

4:05

to executive leadership . Did

4:08

that for a little bit , realized

4:10

that wasn't for me long term and

4:13

sort of looked at where I wanted to

4:15

go next and healthcare appealed to me as

4:18

an industry that I thought aligned

4:20

with my interests and the impact

4:22

you could have , and

4:25

something that was more a little more

4:27

domestic focused . Although

4:29

the supply chain is global , it is a little

4:31

bit more of a domestic focused

4:33

supply chain in terms

4:35

of our efforts in the provider space . So I

4:38

got an opportunity to

4:40

take on a sourcing and contract

4:43

management role at Loyola University Medical

4:45

Center in

4:47

the western suburbs in Maywood , illinois

4:49

, and worked

4:51

for a guy by the name of John Stegner who

4:53

has since retired , but

4:56

he was a longtime sort of automotive

4:58

and industrial

5:01

supply chain expert

5:03

that was brought into healthcare to help bring some

5:05

of those best practices to healthcare and he was looking

5:07

to recruit a team that was from outside of healthcare

5:09

that could bring some experiences into the healthcare

5:11

supply chain , and so I got hooked

5:13

up with him there . We were

5:16

at Loyola together for about a year

5:18

and Loyola

5:20

got acquired by Trinity Health out of Michigan

5:23

and so their corporate supply chain functions were

5:25

sort of based in Michigan and

5:27

John ended up taking a role with some of the

5:29

leadership that had moved from Loyola

5:31

to University of Chicago at the time and

5:34

I had an opportunity

5:36

to either come to University of Chicago or

5:38

potentially look for opportunities within

5:40

Trinity . We decided

5:42

we wanted to stay in the Chicago area , so

5:45

took the opportunity to come

5:47

to UChicago and

5:50

start sort of in a sourcing and contracting

5:52

role to build that team and function here

5:54

and value analysis and such , and

5:58

since then I've been able to build

6:00

that team . Took over for John

6:03

when he retired about seven

6:05

or so years ago for the responsibility

6:07

for the system supply chain and

6:10

then since then I've had some opportunities to

6:12

take on some additional support services functions

6:15

. So environmental services and patient

6:17

transport three or

6:19

four years ago was added to my

6:21

portfolio and then most recently

6:23

I'm taking on leadership for public safety

6:26

and parking operations for the health system . So

6:28

a new area for me to learn

6:30

and see how we can have some positive

6:32

impact .

6:34

You know it's interesting when you

6:36

told me about John's background

6:38

, coming into healthcare from outside

6:40

of healthcare and bringing in best practices

6:43

, and the fact that you had a formal

6:45

educational

6:47

training in supply chain and

6:50

I'm sure that it was supply chain

6:52

, not specifically healthcare , supply

6:54

chain right . One

6:57

of the things that I've noticed and

6:59

that people of my I

7:01

learned a new phrase yesterday I love this phrase of

7:04

my age cohort have learned

7:06

it's not age

7:08

group anymore , it's age cohort . Much

7:10

more impressive have learned is

7:13

that many times organizations

7:15

naively either

7:18

not naively purposely hired

7:21

folks from outside of healthcare to bring best

7:23

practices into healthcare . But perhaps the folks who came in from outside of healthcare

7:25

to bring best practices into healthcare , but perhaps

7:27

the folks who came in from outside of healthcare

7:29

came in naively and didn't

7:31

understand the nuances and differences of

7:34

life within healthcare compared to

7:36

life within Ford Motor Company . Okay

7:39

, did have you noticed what

7:41

? What did you ? What did you learn about

7:45

differences in healthcare

7:47

and the training

7:50

that you've been given at Michigan State and a

7:52

legitimate supply

7:54

chain , shall we say ?

7:56

Yeah , no , I

7:58

think that's a really fair question

8:00

and I've seen you

8:03

know both my experience and others

8:05

that I've worked with over

8:07

the years who have made some of those types

8:09

of transitions , and I think I've seen some

8:11

maybe handle it better than others

8:13

, you know , certainly

8:16

, I think the process

8:18

control , the standard work

8:21

, the visual , the visual

8:23

factory sort of management

8:26

, error proofing processes

8:28

, root cause

8:31

analysis and 5Y

8:33

type problem solving , you know all

8:35

of that , I think , has translated incredibly

8:37

well . I do

8:39

think , and because

8:42

that has been

8:44

a step change over the years for

8:46

healthcare supply chain , there

8:49

is a style in terms of how

8:51

to get from point A to point B and

8:54

how you engage with folks and communicate

8:56

and keep the

8:59

patient care aspects in mind , realizing

9:02

that people who get into healthcare you

9:04

know by and large not everyone , but

9:06

by and large , you

9:15

know have a service-based mindset . It's a different world and when you're dealing with

9:17

service-based people interaction , there are elements

9:19

that are very different from , you know

9:22

, a shop floor and a manufacturing setting

9:24

, and so those things need to be accounted for

9:26

. Even things as simple as terminology

9:29

, I think you know I found very early

9:32

on there were some terminology that in

9:34

a non-healthcare setting you know

9:36

people would be very comfortable with . But things

9:38

that you know someone might say

9:40

that you know you

9:42

really need to think about in a healthcare environment

9:45

. You know when you , when you talk about

9:47

operations and processes

9:49

and problem solving and

9:52

. But I think you know I've

9:55

seen where there's a lot of opportunity , both

9:57

both from the sort of automotive

10:00

and industrial manufacturing sector

10:02

but also from the retail supply chain . I found a

10:04

ton of overlap and opportunity

10:06

in terms of how you know retail

10:09

demand planning works and

10:11

you know thinking about , you know shelf

10:13

presence that we , you know we sort of have within

10:15

healthcare that more aligns to a retail supply

10:18

chain . And you know

10:20

you know the distribution logistics of

10:22

a retail supply chain I think translate

10:25

in some cases more to a health

10:27

system than you know some of the upfront

10:29

sort of manufacturing

10:31

type operations as well

10:33

. But generally I've found there to be

10:35

a lot of value in it . It's been more about

10:38

sort of the style and approach and being able

10:40

to meld those cultures together

10:42

.

10:43

Yeah , you know , it's

10:45

interesting . I think that you

10:48

started out sort of linearly , with

10:50

the exception of the fact that you didn't start out in

10:52

supply chain immediately , but you

10:54

started out in a linear thing from your education

10:56

to entree to doing work , whereas

10:59

many of the other folks that I was talking about

11:01

were stars in some other

11:03

industry , who'd been in the other industry

11:05

for 25 years and came

11:08

into healthcare and could

11:10

not understand what

11:12

Yogi Berra once said , that baseball

11:15

is 90% mental and

11:17

the other half is physical . And

11:19

I think that in healthcare the

11:21

supply chain is 90%

11:24

human interaction

11:26

and understanding the needs of the people you're

11:28

serving and the other half is technical . And

11:32

my observation about those

11:34

who have failed

11:36

coming from the outside , is that

11:38

they thought it was just a direct one-for-one

11:41

transference of doing what they did

11:43

over here to doing it in healthcare , transference of

11:45

doing what they did over here to doing it in healthcare . And you've

11:47

been fortunate enough to have

11:49

come in with a

11:51

formal background .

12:00

a formal training and

12:02

with a mind open enough to learn the interpersonal skills that

12:04

are required , yeah , no , and when you're dealing

12:06

with sort of people interaction and we spend a lot of time in our operations

12:09

trying to I mean intentionally say how

12:11

can we take the people as much out

12:13

of the process as possible ? Because often

12:15

that's where our processes sort of fail

12:17

, because trying to get a large

12:19

number of folks to be trained and follow

12:21

a consistent process can be difficult

12:23

. So we try to error-proof that , minimize interaction

12:26

and have things to sort of foolproof

12:28

that , and

12:31

that's often where we see some of the breakdown . But really

12:33

challenging our teams to not

12:35

get defensive about things and seek

12:37

first to understand before we say

12:40

, well , this process , if they just follow the darn process

12:42

, everything would work great and it's well . Let's

12:45

look insular and let's not sort

12:47

of jump to blame others versus

12:49

you know thinking about what could be done differently

12:51

. And and really you know thinking

12:54

and this isn't just in healthcare supply

12:56

chain but in all aspects of healthcare , the

12:58

sort of people-centered design

13:00

how do you make things work the way people

13:02

think they should work , so that you know they're

13:04

not having to fight against their intuitions

13:07

around things ?

13:07

So yep , yeah

13:10

, that's a great point . I

13:12

was at a conference . I forgot which one it was

13:15

. I don't know if it was the RM conference or

13:17

whether it was an IDN summit , but

13:19

Dr Thomas Fisher spoke there and

13:21

I know you're familiar with him . He's a University

13:24

of Chicago guy . He wrote a book called

13:27

the Emergency and

13:29

the book was sort of his

13:31

mental and psychological

13:34

experience

13:37

through the pandemic . You

13:40

know an inner city hospital

13:42

where you have a

13:44

whole bunch of cohorts

13:47

that are susceptible

13:49

to the pandemic

13:51

. What was the experience like there

13:53

for you during that time ?

13:55

Yeah , no , I think that's a very sort

13:58

of powerful , you know

14:00

that book is a powerful representation of some of

14:02

the dynamics and an interesting lens

14:05

on both sort of the personal and professional

14:07

impact of the pandemic

14:10

here in Chicago and

14:12

in Hyde Park . You

14:14

know , I think , yeah , it resonates

14:16

. I mean , you know , you think about the

14:19

challenges and in the time

14:21

you know spent in it it does

14:23

feel like , you know , when you look back at

14:25

that , as you know , kind of wartimes

14:27

type stuff where you're in the trenches really

14:30

both from a supply chain operations

14:32

and certainly , obviously , from a clinical team perspective

14:35

. But , you know , give

14:38

a ton of credit to my

14:40

, you know , partners and leaders across my

14:42

operations teams and and

14:45

their willingness and ability

14:47

to be right there , kind of scared in

14:49

the front lines . I mean , I think about

14:51

rounding in the ED and

14:53

in the early days to make sure

14:55

our teams were supported and , you

14:58

know , to show that , hey , I'm , you know , from a leadership

15:00

perspective , hey , we're willing to round in

15:02

here and be scared too . So it's okay to

15:04

be a little bit scared , but we've got to take care

15:06

of our patients , we've got to continue to work in these

15:08

settings , you know , being

15:11

thoughtful and new in different ways about

15:13

you know how to protect our

15:15

operations and staff in

15:17

a way that if certain groups got

15:20

infected or got sick , how we would have a secondary

15:22

group that you know wasn't sort of crossing

15:24

paths with them , so it wouldn't wipe out a whole operation

15:26

or a whole shift and the

15:30

realizations early on of some of

15:32

the challenges around you

15:34

know we are going to run out of some of the things

15:36

that we need and this is a

15:38

new thing . I mean , we've dealt with backorders and

15:40

shortages but this is a new thing where it's

15:42

just not there and you're going to have to

15:44

come up with new approaches and solutions

15:47

. And you know , I certainly

15:49

remember early on a meeting with some of

15:51

our senior leadership , where you

15:53

know I was sort of explaining that we

15:55

are not going to have enough N95

15:58

masks and sort of feeling pretty panicked

16:00

and even emotional at

16:02

that , having to sort of go with that because

16:04

we're used to solving problems and having the answers

16:06

and not having to say like we don't have the answer

16:09

, I'm not sure what to do . And

16:11

really them picking me up and saying

16:13

, eric , you know , we don't expect you to

16:15

solve this , this is . You know , we've got

16:17

to figure out a plan together and how we do this

16:19

and how we make this work . And you know

16:21

, remember a number of those moments through the

16:23

, through the sort of depths of the pandemic

16:26

and figuring it out and looking

16:28

back , I mean , we , we were incredibly

16:31

fortunate in some of our connections

16:33

and the network of University of Chicago

16:35

and its sort of global tentacles , to

16:38

be able to get a lot of things

16:40

that others might not be able to do , and have eyes

16:42

on and feet on the ground in

16:44

Asia and other things to help assess operations

16:46

and legitimacy around things

16:49

. And you know we

16:51

were able to continue to provide

16:54

PPE and other critical supplies

16:56

in a way that you know some organizations across

16:58

the country weren't able to do , and you

17:01

know so there was a lot of good things that we

17:03

we were able to do during

17:05

that . But one of the one of the things looking

17:08

back is it does open

17:10

your eyes to what

17:12

is possible . Um , and

17:14

being at an academic medical center

17:16

but also having community sites within our health system

17:19

, it is interesting

17:21

that different sites of care

17:23

and different settings , interesting

17:29

that different sites of care and different settings do things

17:31

differently and have different expectations around what

17:34

supplies and equipment are necessary . But you know , when faced

17:36

with you know different barriers

17:38

or challenges , what can

17:41

be done to still preserve solid

17:43

clinical care with a very

17:45

different approach to what's needed from

17:48

a supply and equipment perspective and

17:50

how you can make things

17:52

work . And so I think that opened

17:54

my eyes to . You know

17:56

how we can sort of challenge assumptions

17:59

and because

18:01

it's you know well , here's clinically how we do it

18:03

. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the only

18:06

way to do it and you know it did

18:08

. It did open my eyes to some of that and

18:10

open my eyes to some of the partners and in

18:12

you know how we can look at those things

18:14

and certainly

18:17

from it , you know , opened

18:19

our eyes in terms of something that we did see

18:21

coming . You know , I think around Hurricane Maria

18:23

, we were really focused on resilience coming out of

18:25

that and the impact in puerto rico , but the

18:27

um , you know multitude's

18:31

different in terms of covid pandemic and

18:33

I think it the good thing is it got the

18:35

industry to start to really focus on this thing

18:37

and you know government's involved

18:39

in in illuminating some

18:41

of the challenges within the supply chain

18:43

and I am seeing progress . Um

18:46

, you and we need to continue

18:48

to stay focused on it and I

18:50

think you know there are some knee-jerk

18:53

reactions that maybe aren't the right answers

18:55

long-term , but I think at least it's got

18:58

the topic front

19:00

and center in a way that it wasn't historically

19:02

and in a sector where the

19:04

supply chain should be a lot more robust than

19:06

it has been , and I think that's been

19:08

a good thing coming

19:10

out of the pandemic .

19:12

So do you think that

19:16

your team is stronger and

19:18

your organization is stronger because

19:20

of the pandemic than it was beforehand

19:23

?

19:24

I would say yes , you

19:27

know , both in that learning

19:30

and you know I think we've been fortunate

19:33

to have some fairly tenured

19:35

leadership , both pre-pandemic and

19:37

post-pandemic . And you know I can't

19:39

be thankful enough for my

19:41

leadership team in terms of their

19:43

different domains of expertise that we were

19:46

able to tap into during the pandemic and

19:48

then having that sort of expertise and knowledge

19:50

to come out of it and have lessons learned

19:53

and make improvements based on some

19:55

of you know what we went through . So I think you

19:57

know we're stronger from it as a team and as

20:00

an organization . And

20:02

you know , I think you

20:04

know , we've implemented things coming out

20:06

of that and , and you know , learn

20:09

from it and how we manage disruptions

20:12

and how we manage uh

20:14

safety stocks and and deploy

20:16

things and in track disruptions

20:18

. And then also you know some of our key suppliers

20:21

in terms of how we manage forecasts

20:23

and demands and critical item lists and things

20:25

like that . That , I think , positions us

20:27

both for normal disruption

20:30

activity and future

20:32

pandemic type situations as well

20:34

.

20:36

Interesting . So you're

20:38

a center city hospital . You

20:40

had an opportunity to go

20:43

straight and stay at Trinity

20:45

and be in Livonia , michigan , and not

20:47

downtown Detroit , and you chose

20:49

to be in downtown Chicago

20:52

supply

21:01

chain at Metro Health in Cleveland , which is the county hospital

21:03

, the hospital that gets all the patients that nobody else wants

21:06

, that the clinic and UH don't usually see . So

21:09

what does being in a center city environment

21:11

mean ? What are your challenges and

21:13

opportunities ?

21:16

Yeah , it is

21:18

a different environment and I think

21:20

you know part of the culture of UCM

21:22

and you often hear when you talk to staff

21:25

and providers here about . You know

21:27

why they like to work here , why they want to work

21:29

here . There often is an element

21:31

around the communities

21:34

that we serve . Our positioning being in the south

21:36

Side of Chicago , you know it's an area

21:38

that , particularly in

21:41

a wonderful city with a

21:43

lot of resources , you

21:45

know has a lot of challenges

21:48

socioeconomic challenges and

21:52

you know

21:54

having

21:57

being able to have a positive impact

21:59

on our patients and our broader community

22:01

is is a through line that you hear from

22:04

. You know a lot of our , our staff members

22:06

and it's been something that really

22:09

has kind of kept me engaged in terms of

22:11

you know we research and sort of world-class

22:14

things on that front , but

22:21

also being able to apply that and have a direct

22:24

impact to communities in need

22:26

in the South Side and beyond

22:28

. I think we're continuing to grow and expand

22:31

but you know we are certainly

22:33

a hub and an anchor institution here in the South

22:35

Side in partnership with the university

22:37

, and you know it's

22:39

. It does bring a lot of differences

22:43

, challenges and opportunities . I think

22:45

you know in general , certainly right being in a

22:47

city center , whether you're on

22:49

a south side and a north side , and you

22:52

know it brings a lot of resources

22:54

. You can tap into strong resource pools

22:56

, you know , and

22:58

and allows us to resource

23:04

pools , you know and allows us to , you know , have strong patient volumes and be able to recruit , you know

23:06

, staff and recruit top physicians because they want to be in a place like Chicago

23:08

. But you know it brings a lot of competition

23:11

. We have a very , you know , highly

23:13

competitive environment , a lot of great

23:15

institutions that we compete

23:17

with in our local market and that

23:20

can create challenging dynamics in terms

23:22

of retaining physicians , retaining staff . I

23:26

would say you know we

23:28

have challenges in terms of our payer

23:30

mix . Like you

23:32

said , you know we're we

23:34

, you know we have some of

23:36

the highest rates of Medicare , medicaid

23:39

patient populations in

23:41

the city . We have one of the busiest

23:43

level one trauma centers in the city

23:45

and sometimes

23:47

the reimbursement

23:50

with some of those patient populations

23:52

and in government sponsored healthcare

23:54

payers . It's hard

23:56

to , you know , make ends meet

23:58

on that payer mix , and so those

24:01

are challenges that we face financially

24:03

in terms of you know how do you

24:05

offset things so that you're able to provide

24:07

that kind of you know , innovative

24:10

and advanced care and treatment

24:12

for all patient populations , regardless

24:14

of payer mix . So those are challenges

24:16

that you know we have to figure out and face . There's

24:20

other challenges I mentioned I'm taking over parking

24:22

and public safety . When you're in a city center

24:25

, parking is never easy . Parking is a challenge

24:27

and that's a real thing for both patients

24:30

and staff . And then when you talk about the

24:32

public safety concerns

24:34

of both patients and staff in a city

24:36

center , those are

24:38

real things too . If I've got to park and then walk across an area , if are real things too . If I've got to park and then walk

24:41

across an area , you know . If I worked a night

24:43

shift and I've got to walk to my parking garage

24:45

, that's a real thing . We got to keep our

24:47

staff feeling safe . We've got to keep our patients

24:49

and visitors feeling safe but also

24:51

, you know , not let that impact how

24:53

we treat and care . And you

24:56

know a lot of that goes into our mission in terms

24:58

of not just caring for the acute

25:01

injuries but trying to really extend

25:03

our care into what caused

25:05

that . You know , what are we doing ? How are we , how

25:07

are we as an organization and partnering with

25:09

our universities , sort of invest in long-term

25:11

solutions to some of this stuff

25:14

and I mean really are doing some incredible things

25:16

with violence recovery programs

25:18

and you know efforts to really work

25:20

both on the immediate injuries

25:23

and you

25:25

know treatment that's necessary for

25:27

. You know patients that you know come into

25:29

our organization , but also the

25:32

surrounding . You know efforts and impacts and

25:34

what does that mean to family

25:36

members and loved ones and why

25:38

did this happen and what can we do

25:40

to sort of support and prevent these things in the

25:42

future and de-escalate ? And so

25:44

there's a lot of dynamics going on . There's dynamics

25:47

in city centers with what people

25:49

think about . You know police presence

25:51

and public safety and how to work

25:54

together to to sort of provide safe

25:56

environments . But recognizing those

25:58

. Those histories are real , those

26:00

challenges are real and out there and and

26:02

you know being thoughtful about you know how

26:05

we provide safe environments

26:07

and and you know care for our patients

26:09

. At the same time , I

26:12

think you know it's also on a positive

26:14

side , being in a city center , we have strong supplier

26:16

distribution networks , logistic networks to tap

26:18

into . I don't have to build all that on my own

26:21

. I can tap into a lot of resources there

26:23

. I can tap

26:25

into , you know , those great competitors

26:28

are also great partners . You

26:30

know , I think back to the pandemic and

26:32

had a number

26:35

of sessions where I was on the phone with

26:37

my you know peer organizations

26:39

at Rush , northwestern UIC . You

26:42

know North Shore , now Endeavor , advocate

26:44

, aurora , and hey , you

26:46

know what are you doing in this space and we were

26:48

sharing openly and where we had extras

26:51

to share and there was very little extras to

26:53

go around , people did their best to make sure

26:55

everyone had what they needed and share

26:57

resources or point someone to a contact

26:59

. And so you know , I really

27:02

appreciate that about health care where , at

27:04

the end of the day , we might be competitors but

27:06

we don't want someone to not be able to care

27:08

for a patient and do what we can to help

27:10

each other out . So I think that's one of the benefits

27:13

too of being in

27:15

a city center environment with

27:17

strong competition , strong health

27:19

care network city center environment with you know , strong

27:21

competition , strong healthcare network , yep

27:25

, you know .

27:25

I think that unless people have experienced it , you know where you are is an entirely

27:27

new world for a lot of folks . I got , I had one surprise

27:30

question , but I have to ask another question , now

27:32

that you're in charge of parking did you get a reflective

27:34

vest ?

27:37

You know it's one of these things of I'll probably slap one on

27:39

. And you know it's one of these things of I'll probably slap one on . And you know I

27:41

always try to . I always really try to walk

27:43

with our frontline teams and understand

27:46

things firsthand . And you know , certainly

27:48

right , I have my personal experiences

27:50

parking and getting around in our facilities

27:52

. But you know you do have to understand

27:54

things from different lenses , from the patient lens

27:56

, from the staff lens . So you know

27:58

it's one of those things happy to sort of put

28:00

on the vest and go see it firsthand

28:03

to understand how we can make things better

28:05

, honestly . So Great .

28:07

So here's my surprise question . I was looking

28:09

at your LinkedIn page the other day

28:11

and I believe I saw that

28:13

at one time you were the CEO

28:15

a chief executive officer

28:18

of the green gym

28:20

store . Okay , you

28:22

start out at a young age and already you're

28:24

a CEO . Why the heck would

28:26

you want to go leave that high

28:29

position to go into the healthcare

28:31

supply chain ?

28:33

So that's a that's

28:35

a good question and you know something

28:37

I've left on my LinkedIn profile

28:40

because I think it was an interesting

28:42

experience . But I

28:45

will tell you it's easy to be the CEO when

28:47

you're a company of one and

28:52

you know that was an experience

28:54

. I got my master's in business

28:57

and actually ended up tagging on some healthcare

29:01

supply chain or , sorry , healthcare

29:03

management sort

29:05

of operations courses at the TLM . But I got

29:07

my MBA from University of St Thomas in

29:09

Minneapolis and they had a strong entrepreneurship

29:13

program which I really appreciated

29:15

. Those classes to think about what it means to

29:17

run a business and all aspects of a business

29:19

. And part of that effort and journey

29:22

was to sort of start up a business

29:24

plan for a company . And that Green Gym

29:26

store was that iteration

29:28

. So never really , you know

29:30

, was a profitable venture

29:33

and anything of major substance

29:35

, but it was a you know the step in my career

29:37

journey to sort of really pound the pavement

29:40

, really talk to people , understand

29:42

, try to meet a need , develop a business plan

29:45

. And you know it got about as far as having

29:47

a name and a logo and a website

29:49

, not much more , but

29:51

you know I keep it out there as sort of a hey , this

29:53

is something that I did at one point and you

29:56

know it was a cool experience . And I will say , you

29:58

know , one of the aspects full circle there is

30:00

is in sustainability

30:03

. You know it's a key focus , you know , for us in

30:05

supply chain and for me personally at

30:07

UCM , and I lead some of our efforts around

30:09

driving more sustainable

30:11

practices here , and so you know , I think back

30:14

to some of what I learned when I , you

30:16

know , had the green gym store effort going .

30:18

But you know , you always

30:20

learn something , no matter what it is you're doing . My

30:23

last question is what did I miss that you'd like

30:26

to talk about ?

30:28

You know , gosh , there's a lot going on in this industry

30:31

and in that UFC . I

30:34

think the one thing that is , you

30:36

know , being talked a lot about out

30:38

there you know , potentially too ad nauseum

30:40

is just kind of this you know

30:42

, technology , landscape

30:45

and AI and automation

30:47

and I have

30:50

a sense I mean , we're talking a lot about it internally

30:52

, both , you know , across our senior leadership

30:55

team and our supply chain leadership team

30:57

, to say how can we lean in , how can

30:59

we try things ? This

31:01

is here We've got to try to figure

31:04

out ways to embrace it , adopt it , understand

31:06

how it can help us and maybe , where

31:08

it's a little bit riskier , and focus on

31:10

problems to solve versus

31:13

oh , here's something , technology to just go

31:15

jump at and leverage

31:17

unless we understand why we're using it . Jump

31:22

at and leverage unless we understand why we're using it . But I do legitimately think

31:24

that there will be some significant changes as a result of and it might

31:26

not all be pure AI I think that

31:28

moniker gets applied to a lot of things

31:30

but automation and technology

31:33

were faced with

31:36

, you know , eroding margins , right

31:38

, and I think that's reemerged

31:40

as a major issue as some of the

31:42

, you know , pandemic offset

31:44

type payments have gone away and costs have

31:46

elevated . Costs are up and

31:49

maybe things like supplies

31:51

and PPE aren't necessarily

31:53

up , but service costs are

31:55

up , equipment costs are up and those things

31:58

. Those are real and so , as those

32:00

, you know , water lines have risen and

32:02

I'm not sure I see a path for them going back

32:04

down . And margins , you

32:06

know we continue to get pressure from the payers . We

32:09

do need to think about how we leverage technologies

32:11

to support growth and not have

32:13

to always add costs to support those

32:15

things . And I think there are some

32:17

real exciting things in technology

32:20

that you know can actually

32:22

help us , but also in a way

32:24

that doesn't feel like it's a painful

32:27

technology . You know , oftentimes technology

32:29

are things that our frontline staff struggle

32:31

with . We roll things out that sound great and

32:34

they fight with these technologies . But there are

32:36

some real interesting things here that

32:38

might actually prove to be both

32:40

, you know , staff and provider

32:43

satisfiers that can also help us

32:46

sort of extend our you know , our

32:48

most valuable resource , our labor , in

32:51

ways that allow us to kind of do more in

32:54

new ways . So I think that's going to be an exciting

32:56

, exciting thing over the next three to five

32:59

years .

32:59

I think that's going to be an exciting

33:01

thing over the next three to five years . Yeah

33:06

, and I think your idea of a thoughtful approach to it is

33:08

very important . I agree with you that terms are rolled out sort of

33:10

without much thought to

33:12

what they really mean . Everybody applies their own

33:14

definition or their own concept

33:16

to what it means , or their own concept of what

33:18

it means and

33:23

solving the problems of the future , combining technology and people and optimizing that

33:25

, requires a careful thought

33:27

and a lot of work

33:29

among very many people at the organization

33:31

. So I agree with you . Well

33:34

, eric , it has been so great to have you

33:36

on our podcast . I've

33:38

been looking forward to it for a long time . I

33:40

look forward to it so much that I

33:42

scheduled it three different times and

33:45

we finally picked one that worked

33:47

and I'm glad to have had you here . Thanks

33:49

so much .

33:50

Yeah , no , happy to do it , fred , my pleasure .

33:53

Okay , hey , take care , have a great day . See

33:55

you later . Thank you , bye , all right .