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2:06

you. Hey,

2:12

everyone. I'm Dr. Allison, and I'm so

2:14

glad you're here to discover what brings

2:16

out the best of you. This

2:18

podcast is all about breaking free

2:21

from painful patterns, mending

2:23

the past, and discovering our true selves

2:25

in God. I can't wait to

2:27

get started as we learn together how to

2:29

become the best version of who we are

2:32

with God's help. Hey,

2:36

everyone, and welcome back to this week's

2:38

episode of the Best of You Podcast.

2:40

I am so glad you're here. I

2:43

know we're well into summer, and for

2:45

those of you who subscribe to my

2:47

weekly email, I mentioned in last week's

2:50

email that this month has been packed

2:52

for me and for my family with

2:54

some major milestone events, including our daughter's

2:57

graduation from college, our son getting married,

2:59

and the weddings of some of our

3:01

closest family friends. It has been a

3:04

season. Talk about kicking up

3:06

emotions inside my own system.

3:09

I am so aware

3:11

right now of the deep

3:13

joy that I'm

3:15

experiencing right there side by side

3:18

with moments of grief, with

3:21

moments of sadness. I'm so aware of

3:23

all that it is taking for

3:26

me to hang on to myself

3:28

and not let any one emotion

3:30

dominate my internal landscape, including the

3:33

anxiety about all of these events,

3:35

planning them, hosting people, hoping

3:38

things go well. All of

3:40

those emotions are so present

3:43

inside of my soul. And I have

3:45

to say, in all honesty, with the

3:47

last two months really, including the book

3:49

launch of I Shouldn't Feel This Way,

3:51

going into all of these major family

3:53

events, it has taken a lot for

3:56

me to hang on to myself so that I'm

3:58

leading these parts of my life. letting the

4:00

different emotions have their place in my

4:03

soul and having appropriate outlets so that

4:05

any one of those emotions doesn't completely

4:07

take over. And as a result of

4:10

that, I've needed to scale back a

4:12

little bit. I've needed to, as I

4:14

sometimes say, let some of the plates

4:16

that I'm spinning or the balls that

4:19

I'm juggling fall to the ground. And

4:21

that's uncomfortable to parts of

4:23

me that like control. And so it

4:25

was no surprise to me when I

4:28

finally saw the new Pixar movie Inside

4:30

Out 2. We talked about it

4:32

on last week's episode with Jenna

4:34

Reims-Rama that I started to cry.

4:36

As I watched anxiety

4:39

finally relinquish its grip

4:41

on the control board

4:44

of Riley's life, tears

4:46

just started streaming down

4:49

my face as I could

4:52

sense in my own system

4:54

that invitation to surrender.

4:56

And what moved me so much

4:59

about that moment in the movie

5:01

is the compassion with

5:03

which the rest of the parts of

5:05

Riley's soul met anxiety. They

5:08

didn't shame anxiety for

5:10

taking control in a way that

5:12

was kind of embarrassing and even

5:14

led to Riley doing some things

5:16

that she wished she hadn't done.

5:18

Instead, they embraced anxiety

5:20

with compassion. It was a

5:22

beautiful picture of what

5:25

can happen in our souls

5:27

when we release the grip

5:31

of any one of those emotions

5:33

that wants to dominate our lives,

5:35

whether it's anxiety, whether it might

5:37

be anger, whether it might be

5:40

self-doubt, whether it might be an

5:42

overly exuberant joy that takes over

5:44

and is sort of aggressively happy

5:46

in a way that can be

5:49

off-putting to other people,

5:51

whatever that part of you

5:54

is that has been vying for

5:56

control of your life. I

5:58

wonder what part of that of you

6:00

is longing to hear the

6:03

quiet voice of God's whisper,

6:05

saying, come to me, you who

6:09

are heavy burdened and working

6:11

overtime to keep things together.

6:13

Come away from that

6:16

control board, that vice grip of

6:18

control you are holding. Come to

6:20

me and I will

6:22

give you rest. Before

6:26

we get started today, I want to read

6:28

to you a section from Boundaries for Your

6:31

Soul where we describe our understanding of the

6:33

self or what we call the spirit-led self,

6:36

this mysterious place inside of

6:38

you from which you can

6:41

lead the parts of yourself

6:43

wisely in partnership with God's

6:45

spirit. Here's from Boundaries for

6:48

Your Soul. Your spirit-led

6:50

self is you when you are

6:52

being led by God who abides

6:54

within your soul. Many psychologists and

6:57

spiritual leaders have explored this idea

6:59

of what we are calling the

7:01

spirit-led self. For example,

7:03

beloved author Henry Nown described that

7:05

place in your soul where

7:08

you have clear perspective where

7:10

you can gather together your

7:12

thoughts and desires and emotions

7:14

and hold them together in

7:16

truth. Nown wrote the following,

7:18

you have to trust that there is

7:21

another place where you can be safe.

7:24

Maybe it's wrong to think about this

7:26

new place as beyond emotions, passions,

7:28

and feelings. Beyond could suggest

7:30

that these human sentiments are

7:32

absent there. Instead, try

7:35

thinking about this place as the

7:37

core of your being, your heart,

7:39

where all human sentiments are held

7:42

together in truth. From

7:44

this place you can feel,

7:46

think, and act truthfully.

7:49

Likewise, psychologists Henry Cloud and

7:51

John Townsend refer to a

7:53

space inside where you can

7:56

experience your feelings without fear

7:58

of judgment, a where

8:00

these parts of your soul can

8:02

receive the attention they need so

8:04

you don't act out in hurtful

8:06

ways. Cloud and Townsend

8:08

say it this way. We need

8:10

to have spaces inside ourselves where

8:12

we can have a feeling, an

8:15

impulse or a desire without acting

8:17

it out. We need

8:19

self-control without repression.

8:22

In this place, your spirit-led self

8:24

holds you together in truth. From

8:26

here, you can draw a troubling

8:29

emotion in closer or ask it

8:31

to step back so that you

8:33

can develop perspective. You can invite

8:35

Jesus to be with the parts

8:37

of you most in need of

8:40

his presence. Your spirit-led self can

8:42

minister to your troubling thoughts and

8:44

feelings so that they are witnessed

8:47

and transformed. As a result of

8:49

connecting to the parts of yourself

8:51

from this place inside, you will

8:53

begin to enjoy healthy boundary lines

8:56

inside your soul. My

8:59

guest today, Tammy Stollenberger, is no

9:01

stranger to this work of befriending

9:03

the parts of the soul. In

9:06

addition to being a beloved friend,

9:08

Tammy is a licensed clinical mental

9:10

health counselor and an internal family

9:13

systems, IFS certified supervisor. She's

9:15

the host of The One

9:17

Inside, an internal family systems, IFS

9:19

podcast, which is one of the

9:21

very first podcasts to explore the

9:24

world of IFS. She's the author

9:26

of The One Inside, 30 Days

9:28

to Your Authentic Self. And she's

9:31

here today to share with us

9:33

very candidly some of her own

9:35

early childhood experiences that led her

9:38

to develop some heavy burdens that

9:40

affected her all the way into

9:42

adulthood. Please enjoy my conversation with

9:44

Tammy Stollenberger. Tammy, I just

9:46

love talking to you

9:49

always. We

9:53

always have such great conversations. I'm such a

9:55

big fan of your podcast,

9:57

The One Inside. It's such a

9:59

great. resource for anyone who

10:01

wants to go deeper. And then your book,

10:04

The One Inside, which I love, it's 30

10:06

meditations. It's 30 days to

10:08

your authentic self. And so basically what it

10:10

does is it's a day by day, teaches

10:13

you the IFS model, but it teaches you

10:15

by going inside and helping you get to

10:17

know your own system. So it kind of

10:20

does two things. It's super user

10:22

friendly, and they're just

10:24

sort of little chapters that help

10:27

you, like, what does it mean for

10:29

me to have parts? And how do I pay attention to

10:31

my parts? And how do I know who is here? And

10:33

how do I know how to track them? And how do

10:35

I start listening to them? And it just is a very

10:38

bite-sized way for you to begin to understand

10:40

and learn and befriend your own personality. This

10:42

is a fantastic resource for beginners to learn

10:44

about the model, but not just beginners, because

10:46

I got a lot out of it too.

10:48

Yeah, thank you. And, you know, I sent

10:50

it to one of the IFS trainers that

10:52

I emailed him and I was like, what

10:54

did you think of it? And he was

10:56

like, it's basic and simple. And I was like,

10:59

great. That's exactly what I want it to be. Because

11:02

there isn't another book like that. Well, I

11:04

love it. And you're a seasoned IFS therapist.

11:06

You do this work all the time. You

11:08

actually consult with IFS therapists who are getting

11:10

their certification. You lead some groups in IFS.

11:13

I mean, you are seasoned in the model.

11:15

So the fact that you can take something

11:17

really complicated and distill it into basic principles

11:19

is actually really hard to do. And I

11:21

commend you for it, which is why we

11:23

love this movie, Inside Out, and the new

11:25

one, Inside Out 2, right? Because that's exactly

11:27

what it's doing. It's taking it out

11:30

of therapy and into normal mainstream life.

11:32

We all have these parts from little

11:34

kids, to ourselves, to our friends. And

11:37

it's just such a helpful way to

11:40

think about the people that we love

11:42

and ourselves at basic level, at the

11:44

foundational level of the soul, right? Is

11:46

we have different parts of us.

11:49

Yeah, I love it, right? So

11:51

an Inside Out has really done

11:53

just this marvelous job of making

11:55

this idea mainstream. Anybody, any

11:57

age can really begin to have this language.

12:00

of a part of me feels sad, a part of me

12:02

feels mad, a part of me is jealous, a part of

12:04

me is bored, and I'm allowed to speak for them, and

12:06

I'm allowed to say them, and they

12:08

make sense. Like it makes sense that

12:10

I would have a variety of parts

12:12

and a variety of different emotions running

12:14

my system. And so, yeah, I think

12:16

the movie does such a great job

12:18

of explaining these concepts that are really,

12:21

they're kind of higher level concepts, but it

12:23

does such a good job of making it

12:25

not that complicated. So toward that end,

12:27

Tammy, I actually am dying to ask you some

12:29

of these questions because I don't know these aspects

12:31

of your story. I know a lot about your

12:34

current life. I know a lot about, you know, as

12:36

we've gotten to know each other for some reason, I

12:38

don't know as much about your personal history.

12:41

And we're kind of in this series looking at

12:43

these personal stories about when these parts form. Like

12:46

we see Riley, right? She's moved across the country.

12:48

She's got to deal with new friends,

12:50

new school, all these things. And we

12:53

see how that external experience

12:55

and the way she relates to her

12:57

family, her parents

12:59

or literal parents begin to shape

13:01

the development of the different parts of

13:03

her. I would love to

13:05

learn a little bit more from you.

13:08

If you would be so gracious as to allow us

13:10

to go back in time for a moment. As

13:13

you think about your pre-teen

13:16

self, the younger you, the

13:18

little young Tammy, what

13:20

are some of the characters or the

13:22

parts of yourself that you now understand

13:24

were parts? At the time, I'm sure

13:26

you had no sense of that vocabulary.

13:29

But how do you see that

13:31

younger you and how she was

13:33

existing in the world at maybe

13:35

sixth grade, seventh grade, middle school?

13:37

I see your face just immediately

13:40

grow compassionate and empathetic. That's beautiful.

13:42

Yeah, I mean, so Riley is 13. And

13:45

so, yeah, I mean, this is a huge

13:47

time of our lives, right? This huge transition

13:50

developmentally, physically. So,

13:52

yeah, I mean, I think because you're you and

13:54

because we have this relationship, it does feel really

13:56

safe. And I always say on my podcast too,

13:58

that like, I'm just thinking about you.

14:00

So I'm just thinking about my friend, Alison, and me and

14:03

you having this conversation. So it feels really

14:05

safe for me to sort of share, to share this. And

14:08

so growing up, my mom and

14:10

dad were 16 when they had me, and there's

14:12

a huge sort of story there, but they got

14:14

married, my mom was Catholic, they got married, and

14:16

then they got divorced sort of a year or

14:18

two later. So my mom was a single mom.

14:21

My dad was kind of in and out, but I would see

14:23

him every other weekend. And I still have

14:25

a relationship with him. And then both of them got married,

14:29

I think I was maybe six or seven when my

14:32

dad married my stepmom, who he's still married to. So

14:34

they both have these really long marriages since then. So

14:36

my dad married my stepmom and they had three boys.

14:39

And then it was just my mom and

14:41

I, until I was 10, and then my

14:43

mom married my stepdad. He had a daughter

14:45

that was my age, and then they had

14:47

a daughter. So I have a sister who's

14:49

10 years. So basically I have a dad

14:51

and a stepmom and three brothers, and then

14:53

I have my mom and my stepdad, and

14:55

then I have a sister who's 10 years

14:57

younger than me. I'm gonna slow down for

14:59

a second because talk about a complicated family

15:01

system. The friend and

15:03

the therapist in me is like, okay, if

15:05

you're okay with me slowing it down. Because

15:08

what I heard in that, Tammy, is you

15:10

have a few half brothers

15:12

and a half sister who's 10 years

15:14

younger, but then also a step sister

15:16

who's roughly your same age. That's right.

15:18

That's a lot of change for a

15:20

10 year old. Yeah, it's a lot

15:23

of change. And what I

15:25

remember is that I was a

15:27

really happy kid, because in general, I'm

15:29

a really happy sort of sunshiny person

15:31

as an adult, and I was a

15:33

really happy kid that I remember. You

15:35

have a strong joy part. I

15:37

see that part of you. Yes, I have lots of joy. To

15:39

use the movie. Anger has been

15:42

completely exiled, but joy is

15:44

here in abundance and we like joy. And

15:46

sadness is pretty good too. We like sad and joy. But

15:49

to bring the IFS piece in in a

15:51

little bit, so my first big training with

15:54

IFS was I did a week with Dick,

15:56

who's the founder, Dick Schwartz, at Cape Cod

15:58

Institute about 11 years ago. years ago. So

16:00

I did this week-long workshop with Dick and

16:03

there was times where there's pieces of teaching

16:05

and then there's times where you could work

16:07

with somebody kind of one-on-one and the

16:10

first big piece of work that I did

16:12

was this 10

16:14

year old part of me who lost

16:16

her mom and

16:18

I was sobbing

16:21

like hysterically crying and

16:24

I did not know that was there. Like I

16:26

had this so much pain of

16:28

losing my mom and I did not know

16:30

that was there but looking back and

16:32

thinking about it I'm like yeah that makes a lot

16:34

of sense because for me it was me

16:37

and my mom and I remember we lived in this

16:39

little tiny we call it the beach cottage we live

16:41

in this little tiny beach cottage and

16:43

we bought if I remember this correctly like we

16:45

each had different types of toothpaste that we bought

16:47

and and to me I had a happy life

16:50

like my poor mom was a single mom and

16:52

you know 20

16:54

26 years old with a 10 year old you know

16:56

so working full-time you know but I'm

16:58

like happiest can be and then all

17:01

the sudden into my system we move

17:03

we move across the street so I

17:05

go to a different school all

17:07

the sudden there's a stepdad who's a nicest

17:09

guy he's a nice guy but there's this

17:12

man his daughter who

17:14

was very very tough and ended up getting kind

17:16

of asked to leave our house when we were

17:18

16 so there's a lot of

17:20

stuff there and then my mom got pregnant

17:23

basically immediately so

17:25

you know by the time I'm 11 I

17:27

have a baby sister a step-sister stepdad a

17:29

new house and so there was

17:31

all this loss there's all this loss and

17:33

I think that my system basically

17:35

exiled all this pain and

17:38

so we're just gonna be cheery we're gonna

17:40

be a nice girl we're gonna be a good

17:42

girl we're not gonna cause any problems and

17:45

so those are the parts of me probably

17:47

from 10 probably till about

17:49

14 that was sort of like I'm just gonna

17:51

be a good girl and I'm not gonna have any feelings you

17:53

know there's not gonna be any pain or

17:56

sadness and there's no there's nothing about me

17:58

right there's no me here right, my

18:00

feelings about losing my mom and what this was

18:02

like for me, that that wasn't even, didn't even

18:04

dawn on me that I could even speak for

18:07

like what this was like for me. Until

18:09

probably 14, probably when puberty

18:11

hit, I think I just got very

18:14

sad and very, just was

18:16

super emotional and

18:18

really just could not find, the

18:20

word comes up for me as sort of like

18:23

identity. Like I just couldn't find, like you sort

18:25

of see Riley, like she's got hockey, like I

18:27

didn't have a thing. Like I didn't, I was

18:29

never really good at anything. I didn't

18:31

have a thing. And so I

18:33

just really struggled with like, you

18:35

know, I was just okay at school. I

18:38

didn't really care about school. I cared about

18:40

my friends just like Riley, and Riley cares

18:42

about her friends and that's most important to

18:44

her. And I think I tried,

18:46

you know, I tried to find different friend groups.

18:48

I think what happened, looking back, and I think

18:50

this is where sort of the church comes in

18:52

later is I really

18:55

wanted to be wanted. And

18:57

I have this, you know, when

18:59

I've done my IFS work, I have this

19:02

exile around not being wanted. Like of

19:04

course you weren't wanted. You're teenage parents,

19:06

you weren't wanted. And my parents

19:08

were really good about saying you're wanted and you're

19:10

loved. And they would say that, they were very

19:13

good, very good about that. But this sort of

19:15

this part of me says, well, the truth is

19:17

you weren't wanted. Like, let's be honest, Tammy, you

19:19

were not wanted. That's who you are. And

19:22

so I have this part

19:24

that is kind of and

19:27

it will say like, it's just in my blood. Like

19:29

not being wanted is in my blood. And

19:32

so I have then these other

19:34

parts that do anything that they

19:36

can do to be wanted. And we see this

19:38

in the movie with Riley where she leaves her

19:40

really good friends to go with the popular girls

19:42

and she makes some really bad decisions. And I

19:45

think I would have done anything to be wanted.

19:47

Like just want me, just include me, just let

19:49

me be a part of it, give me identity.

19:52

And so I sort of flounder, right? I

19:54

flounder with friends, I flounder with boys. Once

19:56

high school comes, I'm just wanting to be

19:58

wanted by boys. And there's a three,

20:01

you know, three is we want to be successful. And

20:03

so it wasn't like, I wasn't successful at school,

20:05

I wasn't successful at sports, but it'd be like,

20:07

okay, but if I want to be with this

20:09

boy, that would be the way I could be

20:11

successful or, you know, being fun or whatever. Like

20:13

that's, that's how I could be successful. So

20:16

then my system, when we think about

20:18

parts, there's a lot of protection around

20:20

this being wanted and then

20:23

what happens when I feel unwanted. And

20:25

so I have all these parts that

20:27

kind of swirl around the idea of

20:29

being wanted and unwanted. Gosh,

20:31

there's a lot in that. And I can

20:34

tell there's also a lot of years of

20:37

getting to know those different parts.

20:40

And so this is the power of IFS. It

20:42

makes sense that a part of you picked

20:45

up burdens all along the way.

20:47

I would imagine as you

20:49

started doing the work with Dick 11

20:51

years ago, there were memories that

20:54

surprised you of things

20:56

that happened that

20:59

reinforced that burden. That wasn't necessarily

21:01

true, but moments where maybe even

21:03

your parents were trying not to

21:06

reinforce that burden, but maybe something

21:08

happened that did reinforce

21:11

that burden. Were there some key memories

21:14

or moments as you've done some of this work

21:16

as an adult that you would go back to

21:18

in your mind? Yeah, I

21:20

mean, that's part of why this work is

21:22

so powerful is you can go back. But

21:24

when I go back, it's not traumatic to

21:26

go back because then I am there with

21:28

me, the adult

21:31

leader, the authentic self. Like

21:34

I can be then with

21:36

my sixth grade part

21:38

that felt like she had no

21:41

friends and was sitting in the

21:43

middle school cafeteria and felt this

21:45

incredible aloneness. I can

21:47

go back and be with her in that moment

21:49

in the way that she needed someone, whether she

21:52

needed my mom or she needed a friend. I

21:55

can go back and be what she needed and

21:57

really get her out of that place that she's

21:59

in that she's. where she's still, because that's what

22:01

happens in our bodies is I still have these

22:04

parts that feel that unwantedness or the no

22:06

sense of belonging or these two families, but

22:08

I don't exist really in either one of

22:10

them. I'm not really wanted, part of me

22:12

believes the burden. I'm not really wanted in

22:15

either one of these families, which

22:17

again, other parts of me say that's not true

22:19

at all, but there's this burden of I

22:21

don't fit, I don't fit and I'm not wanted.

22:24

And you're exactly right. We have these rational logical

22:26

parts of us, right? That get, no, no, my

22:28

parents loved me, but this

22:30

is what the listener who hasn't experienced this, I

22:32

want you to understand these are stored in our

22:35

memories. I remember when I was writing Boundary's Fierce

22:37

Soul and we were supposed to come up with

22:39

stories and I thought, oh, my stories are just

22:41

dumb. And the story that

22:43

I tell in Boundary's Fierce Soul of not making

22:45

the basketball team in, I

22:48

think it was seventh grade, right? Which is such a formative

22:50

year. I worked and worked my tail off a good little

22:52

Enneagram three part of me. I

22:54

worked at it. I worked hard to

22:56

make that team. And when

22:58

the day came and I walked into the locker

23:00

room and the list of names was

23:03

up and my name wasn't on that

23:05

list, the shame that overwhelmed me. I

23:07

had bought brand new sneakers that

23:10

were the sneakers that the real basketball player girls

23:12

were wearing. And this was in a time when

23:14

that was a big expenditure. People

23:16

just didn't throw away money on brand named sneakers. It

23:18

was a big deal. Like I got them, I think

23:21

for a Christmas present, you know? And

23:23

then I didn't make the team. And

23:25

I was just mortified and swallowed up by

23:28

shame because I've had to then wear those sneakers and

23:30

I didn't make the team, right? And my

23:33

parents actually loved me through that

23:36

as best they could. It wasn't even

23:38

like any horrible big

23:40

T trauma thing that we might think of that happened.

23:42

But the way that my

23:45

parts were lined up and the way

23:47

that that story landed in that moment

23:50

with other things that had happened to me

23:52

as a child was just this feeling of

23:54

invisibility. My name is never on the list.

23:56

I'm always invisible. And I

23:59

could find them. moments. And

24:01

I still to this day have to update that

24:03

part of me, because I can find all those

24:05

moments when that happened. And I don't notice the

24:07

moments where my friends will say, Alison, are you

24:09

kidding me? You were always on the honor roll.

24:12

You're always on all these lists. I'm like, didn't

24:14

matter. I only remember the ones

24:16

I didn't make in the shame that I

24:18

felt. And I bring that in. I hear

24:20

you saying so well, Tammy, and so clearly,

24:22

right? Those burdens get picked up. And sometimes

24:25

the memories that we have where there's pain

24:27

are surprising to the logical,

24:29

rational parts of us. They're like, but

24:31

you sometimes don't make the team. It

24:33

doesn't matter. I had to

24:35

go back to the place of that memory

24:37

and be with the young girl

24:39

who in that moment

24:42

just buried that feeling of shame deep

24:44

inside. Well, in the movie, Riley, you

24:46

know, she has these balls, these sort

24:48

of balls of memory. And what you

24:50

see in the second movie is she

24:53

really joy exiles any balls that are

24:55

shame. She sort of puts up in

24:57

this little sucker thing and just sort

24:59

of sucks it away and sort of

25:02

puts it in the basement. And that's

25:04

what we do with memories or

25:06

things that don't align. And so joy does

25:08

that with sort of sad things, right? Or

25:11

shaming things, right? Nope, we're only going to

25:13

keep the happy balls, the happy memories, the

25:15

happy moments, the little balls that reinforce that

25:17

we are loved and we are good and

25:19

we're happy and we're a good friend and

25:21

we're smart and all these beautiful things that

25:23

we want to believe. We're just going to

25:26

keep those balls. But what

25:28

happens is our system,

25:30

because it's so protective in nature,

25:33

we sort of hold on to the balls

25:35

that reinforce that burden. So

25:37

if I have a burden

25:39

of being unwanted, my system,

25:41

my parts, like almost are

25:43

hypervigilant for looking for anything

25:45

or anyone, right? It's sort

25:47

of that idea of one

25:49

person says, I don't

25:52

like you. It doesn't matter that there's a million

25:54

people out there that think I'm the best thing

25:56

in the world. My system is going to focus

25:58

on that one person and like hide them. And

26:00

that's what we do. They put the balls that

26:02

little ball, that memory, then it's gonna become sort

26:04

of stored as evidence of my burden. That is

26:07

so well stated. And

26:09

I can then imagine as you're

26:11

going through high school and the

26:13

social jungle of high school

26:16

and young adulthood, the

26:18

exhaustion of trying to make

26:20

sure every guy, every girl, everyone likes

26:22

you and everyone is

26:24

wanting you and pursuing the ones,

26:27

maybe even I'm wondering here, what

26:29

do you do with the ones who don't

26:32

want you? That would just be devastating as

26:34

opposed to learning, oh, wait a minute, there's

26:36

another way to go through life

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home organically. This show

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is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's

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That's betterhelp,

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h-e-l-p.com/bestofyou. Tell

29:16

me, Tammy, as you got older

29:18

and you brought some of these

29:20

burdens with you into adulthood when

29:22

did you begin to realize, oh,

29:25

this might not be working? This

29:28

strategy for gaining love and gaining a feeling

29:30

of being wanted might not be working? That's

29:32

a good question. We talk about the Cs

29:34

of self-energy. So authentic self is that leader,

29:37

that essence of who we are, the divine

29:39

us inside is this authentic self. And

29:41

we use these C qualities. And

29:43

a C that is not listed in the C

29:45

qualities is choice. And we

29:48

often think about, right, if

29:50

I had choice, if I had more

29:52

perspective, what choices would I make that

29:54

would be different, right? If I'm only

29:56

making choices that are protective in nature because

29:59

my partner. or like I have

30:01

to make choices to be wanted or

30:03

not wanted. So I'm gonna pick jobs

30:06

or hobbies or activities or friends or

30:08

people that really try to reinforce and

30:11

sort of create a space of being wanted. And

30:14

if I get any feeling

30:16

that this person isn't really gonna want me, they're not

30:18

in the club. So to answer your question, you know,

30:20

when I was 21, I

30:23

got really involved in my boyfriend at the time

30:25

who became my husband. We got married when I

30:27

was 22. And

30:30

we got really involved in his church. And

30:33

that really shifted my whole life for probably

30:35

20 years that

30:38

I got really involved in church. And that was

30:40

a community, I had a good church experience. I

30:42

have not had a traumatic church experience at all,

30:44

even though I don't really go to an evangelical

30:46

church now, but I had a good experience for

30:49

the most part. But you know,

30:51

I think that's where sort of the Enneagram

30:53

three busy, the busyness

30:55

and the tasks and

30:58

the being good at something, that's

31:00

when that started coming into play when I was in

31:02

my 20s. Like all of

31:04

a sudden I wasn't chasing boys anymore. I

31:06

was like, oh, I'm actually not dumb. I'm

31:08

actually, I'm kind of smart. And

31:11

so if I take a class, I want an

31:13

A plus. If I teach this Bible

31:15

study, it needs to be really good. I need

31:17

to spend hours on it. I want everyone to

31:19

come to my Bible study. Like it really shifted

31:21

to this sort of idea of being wanted and

31:23

the idea of success shifted

31:25

to be really good

31:27

at this other thing. So Tammy,

31:30

is it fair to say on

31:32

some level, your strategy just shifted

31:35

to more either church

31:37

sanctioned or socially

31:39

acceptable sanctioned ways, but

31:42

really you hadn't healed those deeper inner

31:44

parts of you. You just shifted from

31:46

getting the affection of boys and popularity

31:49

to I'm going to be the best

31:51

Bible study leader, I'm going to be

31:53

the best therapist. I'm going to be

31:55

the best wife, friend, church member.

31:57

I would say yes, except for, I don't know.

32:00

I don't know that I ever wanted

32:02

to be the best wife, which

32:04

I'm so sorry to my ex-husband.

32:06

But to be completely honest, that

32:09

wasn't there. And

32:11

I can feel that now because now I have a

32:13

partner and I feel differently. I feel this idea of

32:15

like, I wanna be a good partner to him. And

32:17

I look back and I think, wow, I never

32:20

felt that way with my husband.

32:22

Like there was, it was sort of like,

32:24

yep, got him, check off the list, turn around, let's see what else

32:26

are we doing? You know,

32:29

let's like- Interesting. Yeah, yeah.

32:31

And that's been something that has been, it's

32:34

just interesting to sort of notice. So I'm

32:36

not judging it, but I'm just really noticing

32:38

that like, wow, that was not on my

32:40

list. And Enneagram One is gonna wanna be

32:42

perfect and be the best at something. And

32:45

a three's drivenness isn't about that. It

32:47

really isn't about being the best. It's

32:49

more about the accomplishment of it, right?

32:52

Like the accomplishment or the, I

32:54

think for me it was that idea, and

32:56

maybe for you too, it's like the idea

32:59

of being wanted, right? So my success is

33:01

being wanted. It's not even really being the

33:03

best at it. When I think about my book

33:05

or the podcast, where I have a lot of like,

33:07

it's good enough, let's just accomplish it and get stuff,

33:09

like I'm just get stuff done. And

33:12

so it has a different kind

33:14

of flavor. It makes sense. And

33:16

I really appreciate your honesty, Tami.

33:19

And I'm thinking of the listener, there's such

33:21

an honesty. And I think this is something

33:23

IFS affords, is we can really look at

33:26

ourselves honestly, because we remove the shame and

33:28

we really just get curious. And I really

33:30

hear you saying, as you look

33:32

back, and it makes sense to me that there's an Enneagram

33:34

three part of you that was like, I can

33:36

check off the list marriage. I've accomplished marriage,

33:40

which is a very different way of looking

33:42

at it than, what does it mean to

33:44

consistently show up for this other human being

33:46

that I've chosen to bring

33:48

into my life or God has put into my life?

33:51

And there's such an honesty. I have no doubt there's

33:53

a whole other side to that story. We won't go

33:55

into that, but I

33:57

do appreciate the honesty of your own ability to go know

33:59

and- reality when I look back, yes, there was

34:01

a lot of me wanting accomplishments. And I think

34:03

that is, you're right. That's a good pushback on

34:06

that. It's not being the best. There's wanting the

34:08

success. And it makes sense to me

34:10

that at that young age, it's like, okay, I

34:12

did that. Done next. And

34:15

that that probably did impact from

34:17

your side of things, how you could

34:20

show up as a friend and a

34:22

partner and an intimate person in a

34:24

long-term relationship. That's really honest. I just

34:26

want to pause there. I think that's

34:28

unusual and worthy of just pausing on,

34:31

Oh gosh, yeah. This is what was

34:33

going on with me without shame with

34:35

real honesty. There's a freedom in that.

34:37

Well, I like what you're saying because

34:39

I think IFS really does that. Like

34:42

if we look at Riley in this

34:44

movie, you know, we can really look

34:46

at these parts of

34:48

her, which is sort of, yeah, of

34:50

course there's an anxious part of her. A sad

34:52

part, like these parts are here. We don't have

34:54

to judge them or apologize for them. Or we

34:57

could be curious about them. You know, we can

34:59

see how much they love Riley and how hard

35:01

they work for her. And that's the same thing

35:03

with our parts, right? My parts, the parts of

35:05

me that were like, let's pick a boy and

35:07

let's be boy crazy. And let's do what we

35:09

need to do to be wanted. And the parts

35:12

of me that feel really unwanted. I

35:14

really understand them. Like it makes sense to me

35:16

that they're there. It makes sense to me why

35:18

they're there. Not in a

35:20

logic way, but in a heart

35:22

way. Like my heart, my open

35:24

heart, myself can really

35:27

understand in a loving

35:29

way how these parts are trying to help

35:31

me. And if we kind of make it

35:33

a little simplistic, my system really just gets

35:35

built around this idea of being unwanted in

35:37

success, right? Just these

35:40

two things that are highlighted

35:42

for me being an Enneagram 3 and coming from

35:45

the family that I did, then think about the

35:47

parts of me that work really hard to

35:49

make sure those things happen. And then

35:51

think about the parts of me that come in when

35:54

that doesn't happen, right? Well, my name is that on

35:56

the basketball list, and then all these parts have to

35:58

come in to help me. with these

36:00

feelings of failure, with these feelings of

36:02

being unwanted. I mean, that happens with

36:04

my son. If my son, my 13-year-old,

36:07

he's an only child, I had a

36:09

hard time having him. And so

36:11

when there's any little hint that he

36:13

doesn't want me, my system

36:15

goes haywire. Like,

36:17

and there's rage and there's

36:19

shut down, because my system

36:22

is built. All

36:24

the parts around that console that are

36:26

in Riley's system, my system, the console

36:29

is built around this idea of being

36:31

wanted and unwanted. And so

36:33

when there's feelings around that, everyone

36:35

goes crazy, right? So then I

36:37

have to be there to say, hey guys, I'm here, I

36:40

am with you. Turn and look at me, I am with

36:42

you, right? And so we have self

36:44

that kind of steps into the room, which we don't

36:47

really see that inside out to, but we have, I

36:49

come into the room and I say, I am here.

36:52

I want you, I love you. Let's see what

36:54

do you need from me. Let's have a connection

36:56

with me. And sort of see what happens to

36:58

these sweet parts when I enter the room. Can

37:01

we move into that a little bit, Tammy? Cause

37:03

I love what you're saying. What does

37:06

that actually look like? Cause it's

37:08

so real when you talk about your

37:10

son triggering you, that those old childhood

37:12

10 year old parts of you that

37:15

felt unwanted. So how do you actually,

37:17

in a moment, let's just for a

37:19

moment, imagine, even put yourself in the

37:22

setting of something he might do that

37:24

would trigger that inside of you. Can you

37:27

give us a little glimpse of how you've

37:29

gotten to know those parts that show up?

37:31

How do you even notice it in your

37:33

body? I've noticed it happens usually

37:35

when I pick him up from school in the

37:37

car. So I'll pick him

37:39

up and there'll be this,

37:42

you know, he's tired, he's anxious, and

37:45

it's just sometimes there's a hard transition. And

37:48

so he'll say something. And

37:50

what I notice in my body is

37:52

it feels like I disappear. Like

37:55

it feels like I am no, like I could be

37:57

singing and having a little dance party by myself, him

38:00

up, he gets in the car and I'm like,

38:02

hey baby, how are you? How was your day?

38:04

La la la la la. Right? Because joy is

38:06

usually here and I'm all joy, joy, joy, joy,

38:09

joy. And he says

38:11

something and I enjoy joy, joy and he

38:13

says something else. And then all of a

38:15

sudden I feel like an

38:17

invisible cloak has sort of come over me and

38:19

I don't even feel like I'm there. I'm putting

38:21

my hands on like 10 and 2, right? My

38:23

hands on 10 and 2, I'm driving the car

38:25

and all of a sudden it's like there's no

38:28

more personality here. Right? It's like I go from

38:30

singing to I'm not here at all. And

38:32

I'm aware, I mean I'm here, I'm aware, but

38:35

I really feel this cloak of

38:38

like nothingness that I've completely shut down.

38:40

Like I'm shut down, I'm numb. It

38:43

feels like it takes over my whole

38:45

body. It sounds like a nervous system

38:47

response. Like it's not

38:49

freeze necessarily, but you really do

38:52

go into a form

38:55

of a fight flight response inside of

38:57

you. A part takes you out essentially.

38:59

Yeah. We all have those

39:01

experiences and as you work with the parts,

39:03

how do you in that moment hang on

39:05

to yourself? Yeah. So one of the things

39:07

I think is really true is it's happened

39:09

so much and this has become a part

39:11

of me that when I think about it

39:13

and I consider some like some of those

39:15

moments that were really hard, I'm like, oh

39:17

yeah, this part has been around for a

39:19

long time. Right? It predates my son, right?

39:21

It predates it. It goes back to when

39:24

I was little sort of this really

39:26

protective kind of cloaking,

39:28

numbing, shutting down part of

39:30

me. And so I

39:32

think one of the things I really recommend

39:35

for listeners is to become really familiar with

39:37

what we call their your major players. Like

39:39

who are the major players that are driving

39:41

your bus? Because then you can get really

39:44

familiar with when they come. Right? So this

39:46

sort of shutdown part, I'm like, Oh, here

39:48

you are, buddy. Right? Like it's almost like

39:50

if sadness takes over that console for Riley,

39:53

we all know what sadness feels like. Like,

39:55

you know, she's got her little, her little cute

39:57

face and her little voice and we're all familiar

39:59

with that. part for Riley. And

40:02

so for me, and I think for us, it's

40:04

really getting familiar with like, oh, that's what's here

40:06

right now, right? So it's so totally blended, totally

40:08

took over that console, totally started driving the bus.

40:11

And so what I'll do now is I

40:14

just will begin to breathe. And

40:16

I will say, I am

40:18

here, I am here, let

40:21

me be here. And what I'm saying to

40:23

the part is, I'm here,

40:25

like I adult self, I'm here, I

40:27

know that you're here, I know that

40:29

you're trying to protect me, but I'm

40:31

letting you know that I'm here, let

40:34

me be here. And it might take the

40:36

20 minute drive home and I don't go jump

40:38

back into sort of singing and it might take

40:40

me an hour or two, right? To sort of

40:42

like, just breathe and

40:44

you see this beautiful scene and inside

40:46

out to where Riley has his panic

40:49

attack at the hockey thing and we

40:51

sort of see what happens inside with

40:53

anxiety. But outside what we see when

40:55

joy sort of takes back over, we

40:57

see Riley breathe, we see her open

41:00

her eyes and look down at her

41:02

skates. We see her senses come back

41:04

online, right? We see that she can

41:06

hear the hockey puck and the hockey

41:08

skates. We see this beautiful moment of

41:10

her senses really grounding her. And

41:13

so that's what I'm doing. I'm saying to this

41:15

part, hey, hey bud, I know that you're

41:17

here, I know you're here for a good reason,

41:19

thank you for being here, like I

41:22

get it and I'm here, let me be

41:24

here, let me be here with him. I've

41:26

got this, you don't need to be here

41:28

and let's just breathe and let's look around

41:30

and I'll stop talking to him, right? I'm

41:32

not going to engage with him right now

41:34

because engaging with him doesn't work in that moment. I

41:37

might turn the radio on a little bit, we're going to

41:39

look around, we're going to look at the trees, we get

41:41

home, we're going to take our

41:43

dogs for a walk and slowly it

41:45

feels like I come back online. And

41:48

at that point you're much

41:50

more equipped to re-engage with

41:52

your son than trying to

41:55

fake it in the moment. I think

41:57

sometimes in those moments we try to fake it or we

41:59

get mad. or other parts of us take over.

42:01

But what I hear you saying is

42:03

breathing through it, taking your time, being

42:06

present to yourself, which as a parent,

42:08

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42:10

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42:12

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42:14

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42:16

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42:19

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44:12

you've done this work, as you've

44:15

reconnected, and I so appreciate your

44:17

sharing so openly your story from

44:20

the past and then bringing it into now

44:22

present day, because it's just so vivid, right?

44:24

Like those moments with our own kids

44:26

replay the tape of our own pain points.

44:29

That's just what happens. And

44:32

I am curious, how do

44:34

you connect spiritually? How

44:37

is your spirituality a resource to you in

44:39

those moments? Yeah, no, it's a great

44:41

question. I'll answer it sort of broader

44:43

and then more specific. What's happened over, you know, I

44:45

was going to Evangelical Church here in New England, which

44:47

was fine. All my friends went there and it was

44:49

it was OK. And then

44:52

COVID happened. And during COVID,

44:54

I discovered a community called

44:56

Closer Than Breath and

44:58

Closer Than Breath is a quote from

45:01

Thomas Keating, who is

45:03

a Catholic priest and sort of

45:05

mystical contemplative man and did

45:07

lots of writing. And he writes that God

45:09

is closer than our breath. And

45:12

so I started doing some some

45:14

groups with this community and then

45:16

Enneagram and Centering Prayer Group. And

45:19

so I was always curious about Christian

45:21

meditation and what that looked like and what did

45:24

that mean. And so I started

45:26

doing these Centering Prayer groups.

45:28

And so Centering Prayer is

45:31

the idea that we take 20 minutes, we take

45:33

a word and the word isn't

45:35

necessarily a prayer word. The word is more

45:38

like a windshield

45:40

wiper because, you know, our thoughts are going all

45:42

the time. Our thoughts are chatty, chatty, chatty, chatty,

45:44

chatty. And we use the word to kind of

45:46

clean the windshield and sort of

45:48

settle back into our heart to settle

45:50

into like a prayer to have more

45:52

connection to the divine. So

45:55

that's what I started doing is I started doing

45:57

this contemplative type

45:59

of Christianity in the practice is

46:02

called Centering Prayer. And so

46:04

I started doing those groups and then I ended

46:06

up going to a Quaker meeting and

46:08

having this sort of hour, because it was

46:11

COVID still, and then I

46:13

really enjoyed the silence. I'm a busy,

46:15

busy, busy person. And so

46:17

something happened for me during the silence, this

46:20

sort of 20 minutes of silence or so

46:22

the Quaker meeting, it's an hour of silence

46:25

around these people that just have this

46:28

contemplative experience of

46:30

God that just feels so beautiful

46:32

and very aligned with what I

46:34

know. My little Baptist girl inside,

46:37

it's like that feels attuned and aligned.

46:39

And also because I did go to

46:41

a seminary, when they do say stuff that's not aligned,

46:43

I'm like, that's not right, but that's okay. Because I

46:46

feel like I have this, my parts say it's okay

46:48

because I have this foundation. I have

46:50

this foundation and so I can go and

46:52

I can take what works for me and

46:54

sort of leave the rest kind of idea.

46:56

So anyways, that's sort of where I am

46:58

spiritually now is just enjoying

47:00

this community of people that

47:03

are just really connecting to God in

47:05

this different way that feels a

47:07

little bit more experiential. It feels more IFSC

47:09

really, right? It's really about sort of going

47:11

inside and connecting. I think the Quakers say

47:14

to that inner light. And so we're connecting

47:16

to that, to me, I would say the

47:18

Holy Spirit or to that divine inside. If

47:21

you're IFSC, you would say to that authentic

47:23

self, it's just this way to reconnect and

47:25

to be more grounded and sort of open

47:28

up in a way that's like opening

47:30

up to our true nature, right? We've kind

47:32

of forgotten our true nature and we've forgotten

47:34

this light that we are. And so it's

47:37

a time and a space for

47:39

my parts to quiet down and for

47:41

me to reconnect to the divine and

47:43

reconnect to God. And it

47:45

feels really beautiful to me. And

47:47

so my partner is from North Carolina. When

47:50

I go visit him, he goes to an

47:52

evangelical church and I enjoy that. It feels

47:54

like home in so many ways, but

47:56

often I sit with my eyes closed and just

47:59

sort of taken. and sort of, you know, what

48:01

does God want to show me or tell me through

48:03

the music and through the sermon. And

48:05

so I think that is all

48:08

a practice, whether it's a Sunday morning practice

48:10

or a couple of times a week or

48:12

a daily practice of really going inside. But

48:14

as I go inside, it's to connect to

48:17

my parts, but it's also to sort of

48:20

ask my parts just to give me space

48:22

just to be here in the stillness. And

48:25

in the stillness, nothing needs to be

48:27

done. In the stillness, I'm just like

48:29

plugging into my power source, that

48:31

source that wants me and loves me and

48:35

is light and is love. And

48:38

I can feel that ultimate wanting,

48:40

the ultimate healing that is beyond

48:42

me and beyond, you know,

48:45

what I can get on this earth, beyond what my son

48:47

can give me or my puppy or my partner, you

48:51

know, it's beyond anything like that. And

48:53

then I had this experience that feels

48:56

really healing. What's kind of

48:58

running through my mind as I'm listening

49:00

is, be still and know that I

49:02

am God, right? And just the way

49:04

you brought that around to

49:06

the ultimate being wanted.

49:09

And the more you sit in that

49:11

and train yourself through

49:13

the slowing down, through the

49:15

being, through the

49:18

intentional quiet, through

49:20

the intentional practice of

49:22

contemplative prayer, and

49:24

you plug in literally to that, no,

49:26

no, this is where I'm truly wanted

49:29

deep inside my core, where

49:31

who I am meets who God is. That's

49:33

what I believe, right? This is where who

49:35

I am meets who God is. Your

49:38

parts start to trust you. In

49:40

those moments, then when you're in the car with your

49:42

son, when those parts

49:44

still rear up, you've begun to retrain

49:46

yourself. No, no, no, no,

49:49

no. There's more here, you know? It's

49:51

beautiful. I love that you took

49:54

us there. And I also love,

49:56

Tammy, that your joy, your busyness,

49:58

you're such an... energy or

50:00

such a life force, you know, you just light up

50:02

a room when you're in a room. Those parts of

50:04

you are just beautiful. And

50:07

also, even with your son, you're lighting up the

50:09

room and then he's kind of eeyoring, raining

50:12

on your parade, right? And those parts of you hijack

50:14

you. All of

50:16

that is welcome around

50:19

that centering place

50:21

of here is God, here

50:24

am I. I just

50:26

love that you're tapping into that. It's

50:29

beautiful. Yeah, thank you. I love the

50:31

way you say that, right? This sort

50:33

of this connection, it's like bringing all

50:35

of me, me and all of my

50:38

parts that are welcome and

50:40

have good intentions and are

50:43

wounded in some way and have all these

50:45

burdens. We all come, we all

50:48

come to the divine for healing and

50:50

for connection and for light and for

50:53

just silence, right? We all come and enjoy

50:56

and take in this connection.

50:58

Yeah, that's beautiful, Tammy. Thank

51:01

you so much for sharing with us. I

51:03

would love for you to let the listeners

51:05

know how they can connect with you and

51:08

your work, where can they find your podcast

51:10

and your book and all the things you're

51:12

doing. Yeah, so if you just go to

51:15

my website, everything's there, tammysullenberger.com. And

51:17

that's where my book and podcast

51:20

and I'm on Instagram at IFSTammy.

51:23

And we have a YouTube channel where

51:25

we're starting to put, there's like really

51:28

cool new start here where we put

51:30

five of some of our favorite episodes.

51:33

So if you're new to IFS or you're curious about

51:35

IFS, you can go to the start here page. It's

51:37

on YouTube and it's on my website and it has

51:39

five of our favorite episodes. So and we're

51:41

going to add five, we're going to keep adding and sort

51:43

of make these playlists and stuff. So

51:45

it's super fun. But that's where you go.

51:47

Before we close, I'd love to ask you

51:50

two questions. What would you say to

51:52

that younger 10 year old

51:54

with the wisdom that you have now? You

51:57

know, what I would say and what I

51:59

think... about and what I'm currently working with

52:01

a part of me, I have like a

52:03

17 year old part that I'm really

52:05

kind of hanging out with lately, is

52:08

this sort of desire to play more. And

52:10

I wish I

52:12

would have played more and I wish I

52:14

would have not a shaming

52:16

way or even a regretting way, but I think

52:19

about like being really narrowly

52:21

focused. And I wish

52:23

I would have opened up and tried. So

52:26

I would say play and experiment

52:29

and try and draw

52:32

and paint and music and just

52:34

try things and really

52:36

just experiment more. And

52:39

that's what's beautiful about you.

52:41

It's not having to succeed at

52:44

anything, it's just playing. Go be

52:46

successful at playing. That's what I would

52:49

say. Go be successful at playing. I love

52:51

that. What would you say is

52:53

bringing out the best of you right now? You

52:57

know, I think what's bringing out the best

52:59

of me is this relationship

53:01

that I'm in, you know, this long

53:04

distance relationship I'm in. It's bringing out

53:06

the best of me because it's making

53:09

me think about who do

53:11

I want to be? I want

53:14

to be more loving. What's keeping

53:16

me from being loving? It's challenging me.

53:18

It's challenging me to be like, okay,

53:20

you're 50. Do you want to be

53:22

in a loving relationship? Do you want

53:24

that? So then what do you need

53:26

to do? What parts do you need to work on?

53:28

What needs to happen inside of you internally for you

53:31

to have the external relationship you always wished

53:33

you had? Because here's the really

53:35

cool thing and I don't recommend people get

53:38

divorced or have two relationships. But when you

53:40

do, and you end up doing

53:42

the same thing, you're like, oh shoot, that must

53:44

be me. And so, okay,

53:46

so you can have the same relationship you

53:48

had the first time, or

53:51

you can try something different. So what seems to

53:53

be bringing out the best of me is being

53:56

a little bit brave and

53:59

a little bit. vulnerable to love and

54:01

to be loved in a really

54:04

different way. Wow. That's a whole

54:06

word. I love that honesty again,

54:08

Tammy. That's the freedom that comes

54:11

with this work of really

54:13

being able to look at your own self, your

54:16

own parts, get really honest with yourself,

54:18

what's mine to do differently. I love

54:21

that you're getting this opportunity. You're

54:24

the best. You're just such a light.

54:26

And I'm so grateful for the time

54:28

you gave to us today. Thanks, Alison.

54:30

And I can say the same thing

54:32

about you. I appreciate your friendship and

54:34

all that you do for the world.

54:37

And for me, just as a friend. Thank

54:43

you for joining me for this week's episode

54:45

of The Best of You. It would mean

54:48

so much if you take a moment to

54:50

subscribe. You can go to Apple, Spotify,

54:52

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55:01

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55:03

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55:06

to seeing you back here next Thursday.

55:08

And remember, as you become the best of

55:10

who you are, you honor God, you heal

55:12

others and you stay true to your

55:15

God given self.